When I started this post I originally intended on doing a write-up for a full bike fit. It didn’t take long before I started to comprehend how massive of a topic this is. Even the basics would take thousands of words and dozens of photos to explain. Therefore I decided to break this topic down to the individual elements of the bike fit.
When doing a bike fit the place to start is at the feet. This is the first point of contact on the bike and proper cleat setup is one of the most important elements of proper fit.
Many PhD’s have been written about cleat positioning and there are various theories out there. Unless you’re bio mechanically sensitive or have some individual needs these basic steps should get you going with a good and neutral cleat position that will minimize injuries and be comfortable.
1. On most cleats there is a center of cleat marking. You can see this vertical line on the side and center of the cleat below.
2. Attach the cleat onto the shoe so that the middle of cleat marker is in approximately 5mm back from the widest part of your foot (usually around the ball of your foot). It sometimes helps to tape a washer onto the side of the widest part of your bare foot so you can press on the shoe when the foot is inserted and feel underneath the shoe.
3. Once both cleats are attached in the proper position lay the shoes on a ledge with the cleats pressed up against it. Check to make sure the toes are even (thus making sure the cleats are positioned equally).
4. With the shoe attached to the pedal, check again to make sure that the wide part of the foot is slightly (about 5mm) ahead of the pedal axle. The other dimension to cleat positioning is sometimes referred as the lateral position or the “Q-factor” (the distance the cleat can be adjusted towards or away from the crank arm). This is highly individual based on your body type. A rule of thumb is that when the cleats are mounted there should be about 2cm between the heels of the shoes when they pass the crankarm on the way through the pedal stroke. Your feet should be close to the crankarm without letting your ankle hit it on it’s way through the stroke. Riders with wider hips may benefit from moving the cleats to the center or even as far as the inside of their shoes to push their feet further out.
Angling the cleat: In many cases riders don’t pedal with perfectly straight feet. To compensate for this most pedals have some degree of float so you get that neutral feel in sync with your natural toe-in or toe-out tendency. This is the most important setting to keep your knees happy and is highly individual. I would try to set the cleats dead straight and let the pedal float take care of any abnormal leg movements. I notice that some people have this odd knee jerk during their pedal stroke when they’re muscles are tight, but after they loosen up it goes away.
When I started getting knee problems I switched over to Speedplay pedals. They were very difficult to get used to because of their high degree of float. However, after I got accustomed to this I loved them and will never use anything else.
Once the cleats have been set using this basic technique, the cleat position should be neutral. There should be absolutely no twisting sensation through ankles, knees, or hips.
There’s been some interesting research done on moving the cleat position very far back towards the middle of the foot. This apparently produces more power by recruiting more of the larger muscles – the quads and glutes. I’m going to research this with a number of experts and I’ll write about it in a later post.
Thanks to Cycling Edge for letting me use their fit studio for taking these photos and helping me with this post.
{ 21 comments }
— Awesome post!
Great post, can’t wait for articles on other aspects of bike fit too.
I’m a big fan of the speedplay pedals and will also never go back. I have the ‘zero’ model which allows you to adjust cleat float – I’ve cut mine back down to a float of about 6-8 degrees. The standard setup with 15 degrees of float did feel a bit much!
I’ve heard that pros generally have their cleats set up with zero float (a bit scary if you ask me!). Did you notice this with the rapha guys?
Any advantage to using Speedplays over the Ultegra SL SPD-SLs I am using currently?
Off the top of my head, the advantages of speedplay pedals are:
- v.light weight (~50-100g lighter than normal pedals)
- fully adjustable (back/forward, side-to-side, and rotational cleat float)
- you can clip in either side of the pedal
- simple ‘push down’ entry (you dont need to think about it)
- great cornering clearance
- metal cleats (low wear)
Disadvantages are:
- you need to maintain them (i.e. a bit of lube each use)
- the metal cleats are like ice skates on tiles (and scratch up wooden floors)
- take some ‘breaking in’ for light riders
I’ve also ready that they are more aero than other cleats – but I dont imagine this makes a great deal of difference…
I used zero-float cleats for a couple of years but have been converted to 4.5 degrees by a bike fit expert. Admittedly, I have had less or almost no issues with knees lately but I do miss the steady platform feel I got from the zero-floats.
Again, I am not a Rapha boy…
I am a big fan of the Speedplay Zero pedals. From a fit perspective they are a very versitile pedal system for a couple of reasons.
1. Float is adjustable from 15-0 degrees. (perfect for someone wanting to try a fixed pedal system)
2. Three different pedal spindle lengths are available to vary the Q-factor.
3. The cleat does not need to be moved on the sole to adjust ‘cleat angle’. (this is adjusted by the heel-in/heel-out adjuster screws)
4. Leg length discrepancy kits are available from Speedplay.
5. They also have a very low stack height which produces a more symetrical pedal stroke.
After ATB my mates and I were talking about how great it would be if CT did a bunch of articles on bike setup. And here you are, reading our minds as usual!
Thanks heaps for this, super useful.
My knees are absolutely killing me, so I’m definitely thinking of investing in a set of Speedplay Zeros.
And… white Sidis goes without saying!
A very intersting post, with great practical tips for setting up my cleats symmetrically.
I’m wondering if cleat set-up influences the dodgey knee-roll that I get, and I see as reasonably common. On knee rolls in to the top bar with each revolution.
Anyone got any ideas on how to resolve this? I have a feeling that as I get older, I’ll have more knee (ITB) problems caused by this.
DD
Another great post and great to see that starting point isn’t ball over pedal spindle.
The one thing I would add is that the mm behind the spindle could be greater and should increase with shoe size. I have followed Steve Hogg’s recomendations (check his website) and my size 48s are 12 mm behind spindle and it is awsome.
My kingdom (and knees) for Time Equipe pedals and cleats…
I have two pairs (red and blue) and cleats (now using Time RXS) not being used. Let me know if you’re interested!
I am one of the rare people who has gone away from Speedplays, after riding them for a number of years. Some of the reasons that I have done this won’t affect everyone, for example, I have a lot of mobility in my ankles, and my main form of racing is track.
Things to think about before you go and drop cash on Speedplays
1. The cleats set up relatively further forward on your shoe, due to the “centre of cleat marking” being exactly in the middle of the speedplays, as opposed to shimano and look where it is much closer to the rear two bolts. This may be important to you if you want to achieve a rearward positioned cleat- if so you will need to buy an optional extra baseplate.
2. There is some evidence that more float, whilst it does spare your knees, does leak a bit of your peak power. I don’t think you will find Chris Hoy using speedplays.
3. If you do want to minimise the float, you lose one of the advantages of speedplay, which is that within the range of float, you can’t pull out of them until you reach the end of the float. This is unlike looks and shimanos, which are held in by spring tension alone, and if you pull hard enough anywhere in the range of float you can come out. (This is why track sprinters use toe straps.) If you make the speedplays 0 degrees float, they feel a little precarious in sprints and starts, as you are already at the point where you can clip out, and the pressure to do so is minimal (even on track specials).
4. Replacement cleats are relatively expensive and whilst they retain their ability to stay clipped in, pretty much forever, they do get a bit of lateral rotational movement after a couple of thousand km. This is due to the pedal body wearing into the composite baseplate. You may note that the current trend is to pedals having features that minimise the tendency for your foot to roll- both shimano and look’s newer pedals have stainless plates that go wider than their previous models, precisely to avoid this with pedal wear.
That all said, Speedplays definitely look the best on your bike, and given the weight of the pedal system is mostly in the cleat which stays on your foot, they add to (or should I say subtract from) the impact of the little finger test.
You always come through! I’m having IT band pain and think it’s my cleat positioning. Thank you for this very helpful post. It’s like all my cycling books rolled into one, comprehensive post that makes the most sense (and has fantastic photos).
I agree with other people that more posts on bike fit would be great. I don’t want to pay $150 for a professional fit (not when I’m needing new gear) but the free/cheap fits at the local shops just don’t do it for my messed-up knees.
KF
Great post. One thing that really helped me in fitting cleats was to use a Turbo Trainer over the winter. You really get a great feel for the natural position that your feet take without having to watch out for traffic etc.
I noticed that my knees were happier with a slight toe-in position so adjusted the cleats for this. Also used the trainer to sort out reach / saddle height. You can get on / off as many times as you like – making little adjustments.
Hi Guys
What an amazing co-incidence, I had just finished a consultation session with a sports/cycling/knee (physio) specialist, who recommended exactly what’s in this blog post.
I’ve started noticing pain in my right knee since increasing the intensity of my rides & gym workouts (especially during hill climbs & squats at the gym).
(Not to mention knee problems run in the family)
Physio advised I have some ‘minor’ cartilage damage, or a Meniscus Tear on the inner left side of my right knee.
This is due to my right knee wanting to push my right foot outward, whilst my left leg/foot remains dead straight, but my cleats currently (non adjustable Look Kleo Red) point my foot/knee dead straight.
(Also, on the lower to upper side of the revolution of my pedalling/stroke, my right heel sometimes hits the back frame of the bike)
The recommendation was to configure the right cleat’s float enough to accomodate the natural position of my right foot/knee wanting to face outwards.
The spindle length/size to go for is 1/8″..and the speed play zero’s are built for this purpose.
Yes, the ‘ice skates’ will take some getting used to, with the addition of the entire mechanism sitting under the ball of your foot, rather than on the pedal itself – but if these pedals/cleats decrease the chances of permanent knee damage, then its money well spent.
R.
PS – Great blog site keep up the great work.
I can’t recommend enough how important it is to have a professional fitting. Having recently had mine at specialist boutique bike shop which cost $70 and took about an hour. He went through everything such as the above cleat positioning, handlebar/hood set up, saddle, etc. Any discomoft that I had was immediately elivated and having rode the 210km around the bay I didn’t have any discomoft at all from neck, back, etc. My initial fitting was done at the LBS as part of the sale but it’s defintely not as complete as the specialist fitting.
Given that you spend so long in the saddle doing a repetitive motion I think it’s very important to have your positioining perfect in order to not cause discomoft or injury while achieving the best possible output.
Eddie, care to share where you had the specialist service, with the litany of people offering bike fit’s these days a good recommendation is a very good reference.
No problems. Fuel Performance in Murrembena was recommended to me. (www.fuelperformance.com.au) 03 9563 3281
There could be several contributing factors to ‘dodgy knee-roll’-other than a dodgy knee of course. Through a revolution of the cranks most peoples knees go in or out particularly with fatigue. In very general terms this is the natural cycle of your body, it can be brought on by such things as sitting side saddle and any manner of physiological differences and or incorrect seat height. Again very generally fore and aft and side to side adjustments of cleat position doesn’t make a large impact on knee roll, unless set very wrong. In extreme cases wedges are available to sit in the shoe or between the shoe and the cleat to angle the shoe to the inside or outside helping correct this action. Conjecture exists whether it is correct to ‘re-align’ natural movement. But as with any rotational body movement if it hurts seek attention. Out of interest watch (in slow motion) a group of pro riders filmed from the front and look at the action of their knees……
Agreed!
There is no prize for the most symmetrical position, the only reward for correct positioning is cycling free of abnormal discomfort (See more recent post on climbing for more on pain). I suspect that often knee pain is related to doing too much, too soon for many people. Clearly there are circumstance where you need specific measures taken, but correct fit is the easiest way to start.
Comments on this entry are closed.
{ 2 trackbacks }