Bunch Riding Etiquette – TT Bars Allowed?

December 18, 2009

TTT

Pascal Pavani/AFP/Getty Images

There’s been a debate brewing in the Beach Road peloton over the past few weeks.  Lately we’ve been seeing more and more riders sporting their time trial bikes in the bunch rides.  The fact that more triathletes are out riding and the National TT championships are fast approaching brings out the TT bikes and aero bars into the bunch rides.

The unwritten rules of bunch etiquette typically states that if you’re riding among the bunch with aerobars, do not use the aerobars. Stay up on the hoods where the brakes are. TT bikes and aerobars do not have the same control as a normal road bike and cannot react in the same way to obstacles on the road.

That said, I know of a few accomplished high profile athletes who have been using the bunch rides to prepare for their TT events lately.  I certainly don’t have a problem with this because I have complete confidence in their judgment and abilities.  Plus I get a 50km/hr free ride home on a windy morning!

However, if some rider with less experience were to ride their TT bike in the bunch and try to pull turns in the aerobars I might think differently.  The odd time I see someone who I don’t recognize riding with a TT bike or aerobars bolted on I’ll get as far in front of that rider as I can as I don’t feel safe – even if they’re on their hoods.  This raises the question: should these experienced and influential riders in the bunch be setting this example for the rest?

This week I spoke with a couple experienced riders who have vastly different views on TT bikes in bunches.  Keep in mind that both these opinions come from world class riders.  Here’s what they had to say:

Views from the TT’er

In other parts of the world I’ve seen TT biks and regular bikes mix it up regularly on bunch rides. No one has ever had any problem with it assuming this golden rule always obeyed:

Never be in the TT position when you’re in the bunch.  You don’t have access to the brakes when you’re on the aerobars.  Always be on the hoods where you have much more control.  Only when you get to the very front should you ever get into the aero-tuck position and go into timetrial mode.

Time trial training in bunches can be good because they’re hard and fast rides.  Getting in a few 2-3 minute very hard intervals on the front can be excellent speed endurance work that’s difficult to train when out on your own.  The bunch rides really push you because the pace is dictated by the group and can push you beyond your comfort zone.    Once my hard effort is complete I can get back in the bunch and use the fast pace as active recovery until I can get to the front again.

View from the Anti-TT’er

Riding a TT bike in bunch rides is poor form, poor etiquette, or just plain dangerous for everyone else if not the rider on the TT bike.

Four main reasons to discourage TT bikes/profile bas from the packs are that:

  1. UCI regulations prohibits use of TT bikes in the peloton
  2. Bull-horns are both less stable for bike control and risky for close proximity riding
  3. Riders positioned on Profile bars have no access to the brakes on the bike at that time
  4. It goes against bunch Etiquette which we are all desperately trying to exemplify to the masses in the current culture of bunch riding

A history of ‘Bunch Etiquette’ (which is currently all we have to rely on in the impending dangers of bunch practices) has it that riders who want to ride on TT bars should responsibly choose one of these options:

  1. Ride off the back of the pack or off the front of the pack (not hard to do with the aerodynamic advantage)
  2. Go riding in a group of riders all using profile bars together
  3. Go riding solo

The reason we would all generally NOT take up option 2 is that nobody in the group can stop if a kid or a car comes out suddenly ahead of the riders!

What are your thoughts?  Should TT bikes and aerobars be discouraged from bunch rides?  Or should certain etiquette be obeyed while riding this equipment around other riders?

Tagged as: bunch etiquette

  • Komo
    Very interesting debate. I have both a TT bike and road bike, the TT bike comes out for TT training, the road bike for bunch riding and Nth Rd rides etc. I want absolute full control on that ride and I just do not have it with the TT bike. It is dicey at the best of times even on the roadie.

    I must say though, there are often times when a group of us, sometime > 6 are slogging our way back from Mornington on the TT bikes and pass slower bunches who seem more than happy to latch onto our coat tails and get that ride back to St Kilda. If etiquette is to prevail, do we turn around and tell the roadies in this scenario to *#$% off?

    Food for thought....
  • kylieonwheels
    Billy Buster's mate Whytey is right, TT bikes have a different geometry than your average road bike. The significance of this is that they are generally a more aggressive and efficient riding position, which unfortunately is offset by being harder in handling, and a lot less comfort over a distance. To use a surfing analogy, it's like the difference between a long and a short board. The short board is heaps more manoeuvrable but that also means it's easier to eat shit. Typical TT bikes have less rake (fork and seat), are made of stiffer materials, and even have a shorter wheelbase. They are designed to help the rider get maximum power to the road.

    So, if you put a TT bike (or a Tri bike if you want to think of it like that) in a bunch, you wanna hope that the guy riding it is skilled enough to make up for all the losses/difficulties I've described above. No doubt there are some who can, but I'd personally be saying no to TT in the peloton. The fact that UCI ban it is enough for me really! Oh yeah and then there's the fact that the rider isn't anywhere near the brakes, and probably isn't very comfortable looking forward.

    As many have said previously, if you want to train for the TT, train specifically for it. Not in a road bunch. I vote No TT in bunches.
  • BillyBuster
    kylieonwheels, you do undoubtedly ROCK.
  • Hack
    Have had some great fun with 6 of us wheel sucking a P4 up Beach Rd in the low 50's - if they are on the front all good - mid pack and chewing bartape = fail
  • canguru69
    Mon Cherie Billy Buster,
    So now we are banning Time Trial bikes as well as Time Trial Bars.
    The smell of ignorance is bliss.
    I say welcome all, Road, TT, Tri, recumbent, fixed, free,single, yellow, black, white, american and even Colnago.
    This concern for others borders on humerous. Is anyone seriously considering that there is concern or etiquette on a saturday morning at Fight Club (AKA Hell Ride). I'm yet to see it.
    What will we do when someone does turn up in the Budgie Smugglers, tt bike with Aero bars and rides off into the far yonder.
    Better in Wades CT gear hey
    Nuff said.
  • Jimbo
    I have a TT bike that i use for Time Trials, I don't even feel safe on it riding on my own on country roads and i'd see bike handling as one of my strong points. Anyone using one of these bikes in a peloton is a nuffy. And if doing a 2-3min turn in a group ride on beach rd with your TT bike is what you call 'intensity' then your probably not training for Nationals
  • BillyBuster
    With respect Mr cangaru69, my mate Whytey, the brainiac, reckons TT bikes are designed with a different geometry (Just look at the vertical seat post) to that of road bikes. The idea is to allow a 'stronger' position for the rider so he can push a higher speed. . . Help Whytey!

    And I wonder about Triathletes 'love of bikes'. I ride because I'm just like you, I love riding my bike. But surely tri-dudes got into the sport through their running/swimming (I just can't imagine a cyclist saying to themselves "You know what, I might try this tri stuff") and ride because they have to?

    Sorry TT riders, but I'm a 'no' vote.Cycling is dangerous enough as it is.
  • vickster
    I'm still pretty much at the beginner level of cycling, started out about 18 months ago as a means to commute to work. I got into it and started going along to group rides, and then I decided to try out triathlons (without a background in either running or swimming). Seeing as it's early days, and I'm not flush with cash I've only got the one bike. I usually incorporate the bunch rides into my training - pushes me to a faster pace and I continue riding after the group stops to make up the distance. I just got aerobars fitted to my road bike which are not easy to remove or I'll mess up the positioning. I wouldn't dream of using them during a group ride, only when I'm by myself but after reading these comments I'm worried about the attitude I'll cop from other riders in the bunch.
  • JC
    Vickster,

    Turn up and ride with whatever bars you like. It seems to me that the "book of cycling etiquette" contains more rules, regulations, do's and don'ts than the damn tax code. If someone gives you attitude 'cause you have the wrong bars, bike, shoes, or whatever tell em where to go. Cycling needs to loosen up and stop taking itself so seriously. Part of the reason the rest of the world hates us (refer many previous blog posts re: cyclist hating generally) is the perception that we're a bunch of elitist tossers. And it's no wonder, the endless (and mostly meaningless) rules or "etiquette" we build up around ourselves is just a device to exclude the uninitiated. Everyone should just get out there and ride hard, ride safe (common sense should be exercised here) and don't forget to smile. After all it's supposed to be fun, right!
  • BillyBuster
    JC,

    Clip-on aero bars aren't my concern (unless they're being used!!), but more specifically TT bikes. And I'm no elitist tosser, but I will certainly verbalise any 'meaningless' cyclettiquettes if somebody may be jepordising the safety of other riders. Haven't you (or witnessed somebody)ever been taken down by another rider? Fun yes,unsafe no. :)
  • gm
    all bianchi riders should be banned from any group ride as they are elitist.
  • sillyoldbugger
    I reckon if I could do a triathlon in a different order (run, bike, swim) it might be tempting to give it a go, but the notion of standing around on a pier or shoreline in budgie smugglers waiting to freeze even more whilst others kick me in the face is too much for this duck.

    As to TT bikes, they have strange geometry and are not safe in a bunch. Especially when you consider they're ridden by someone who likes to hang about in budgie smugglers on a pier....
  • canguru69
    Wow, Wade you have opened up a real can of worms here. If someone is even suggesting that there is Bunch etiquette then I find that quite amusing.
    Facts: Bull horn bars basically replicate the Drop position on a standard set of bars and in reality the brakes are as accessable in that position. As far as stability goes, no difference.
    Aero Bars: Yes, they are for riding on the front and discretion is needed when this is appropriate in traffic or open roads.
    As Far as Drew Ginn goes, ask those who rode Tour of Bright if he has sufficient skills to ride in the Bunch? Grew up racing BMX, ladies I stress that you have little to fear other than having to suffer for a little while.
    If peopel are insinuating that they are concerned for others on the Black Rock ride then I am yet to see it.
    Safe riding
    We all share a commonality with the love of the bike and it is no more complicated than this.
  • Seb
    Strict rules. No TT bars on group rides unless it's team time trial training. Triathletes... no comment.
  • Craig
    No.

    Why did you bother with any other words in that article?

    Take the road bike to the bunch rides. If you have a TT bike too, and want to ride 1 or 2 days a week on it, go out for a solo session. If you are a triathlete and only have a TT bike, then there are other options you could explore, like suicide.

    There is no excuse to ride with clip on bars. They made them clip on so that you could clip them off!
  • cragz
    Is it relevant to suggest Bbox Bouygues Telecoms 09TDF TTT as an example of what happens when bunch riding with TT bikes goes wrong? : )
  • gm
    why would you TT down beach road anyway, starting and stopping at lights all the time. anytime that i have used beach road my avg heart rate is anywhere from 6-8 bpm lower than when i train out to the north, not what i consider a good workout. And last time i checked the racing calender it doesn't list a Go To Whoa event.... this is only my opinion but wouldn't it be better to train on an open road with a few rolling hills other than riding the flat existence of beach road and battling the traffic lights.
  • sflaherty
    But then they wouldn't get to show off their bling bikes!
  • When I was living in Austin, there is the famous ATC bunch ride that leaves every Saturday morning. It is a 60mile ride that contains a 10mile impromtu race and there are plenty of Tri-guys/gals and roadies mixing it up together. I have not really had any issues with them, but I do agree with what you said about being wary of people who you don't know or seem a little erratic. No-one complains about their presence and in fact, you can draft of the stronger tri-riders and get a nice free-ride :)
  • PommyLee
    Is there ever going to be an official CyclingTips bunch ride... 'be the change you wanna see!'
  • slyrider
    I've ridden pacelines where the whole group (4-8 riders) are down on the aerobars and we're pushing 45+km/hr.

    Do it all the time, especially come state champs when training for a teams event, and we have no dramas, no hassles, it's great training and damn good fun.

    What's the catch? Too good to be true?

    No catch, except that all you need is a fixed gear track bike. Then you get yourself a velodrome and a bunch you know (ride skills and capability) and go for it.

    We've had a tri-hard recently join our track bunch for pursuit work and he's enjoying the challenge and learning a few things (e.g. gaining respect for what track has to offer). Would you believe he's learning how to spin instead of grinding big gears all day?

    So, I agree with the comments above. This kind of work is not appropriate for road bunch riding and if it's a small group specifically training for a TTT, then you'd have to manage the safety aspects out on the open road (pick your location / time). For me, the smart play is head to the track and it's even better because you can have some real fun moto-pacing but that's a different story.

    Maybe there's an opening for an entry in the CT blog on that subject, i.e. moto-pacing, sometime in the future?
  • Scott 585
    Isn't it just a whole lot more dangerous to do basic stuff like pointing out debris, holes etc on a TT bike? Or is that normal practice and the following riders just cruise into obstacles?
  • ambrose
    Heres a comparisson, is there a deiiference between a rider using aerobars, and riding on top of the bars, where you can't reach the brakes anyway? Having said this TT bikes don't belong in bunches. If you ask me the only TT training you need to do on the TT bike are some longer race length efforts so you can work on the postion and mental aspect of TT. All other efforts can be done on the roadie.
  • jake
    how many north road ride groups are there now
  • Shaka
    Andy you're welcome at the NRR on your TT bike anytime.

    Other interesting issues - headphones (often used in bunches by experienced riders - a ridiculous habit) and now that fixies are the latest trend people who I know have never been on a track are appearing in the bunches on them with a front brake. Dangerous
  • Will
    What about the bloke who only owns a TT bike?
    Bloke i ride with only has a TT becuase he came from a tri background. He is poor and so therefore he only has one bike - he often wears non matching kit too - i do wonder why i am his friend.
  • JC
    Sack him. He's holding you back. Pros should never be seen with non-pros
  • PommyLee
    "He is poor"... love it!
  • Andy Naylor
    Hi
    I do ride a TT bike and i do ride in the local bunch rides. I have ridden TT bikes for a very long time (but im still very young ha ha) I get what every one is saying and will listen to every one, i do not mean to course problems in the bunch apart from just get on with my training in a safe manner.
    i enjoy trying to keep at the front and go hard before everyone comes around me then i try again and then rev it up at the end for all you sprinters out there. I do use other tt training as well but the morning ride is hard and a good warm up too.
    I will now think about me using different methods ie10 min or 5mins in front of the bunch to keep you chasing me.
    if i have made any one feel un safe i do apologise and i always ride as safe as possible.
  • naylorsnr
    I can't believe my son has been riding aTT bike on the Hell Ride- kick his a.se!
  • Andy Naylor
    Hey Dad
    you used to sit on me for hours and get a good training ride and i kicked your a.r.s.e love you though Dad
  • wheel sitter
    let us know when you are going to start andy ... it can be called the "north road andy ride"

    and I will sit on the back of you ... better than paying macca $50 bucks for motor pacing but I get the same result.

    the times are getting pretty tight now , 5.45am, ten to 6, 5 to 6 and 6am rides so not sure when you are goign to slot in.
  • Naylor
    The Noth road andy ride will leave 5.55am lock it in
  • Ritch
    It depends a lot on what the bunch wants. If someone wants to ride on the hoods and then use the extensions when they reach the front, it doesn't bother me as long as they ride safely. I can understand the "for TT" case of getting high quality intervals on the front of a fast bunch, again as long as that style of riding suits the bunch... it wouldn't work if the bunch is working a rotation. The safety of all riders in a group ride depends more on the skills and attitude of the riders than the shape of their handlebars.
  • Jon
    I have a TT bike and wouldn't be comfortable riding it in a fast and competetive bunch. Maybe if its a slow recovery ride I'd consider it safe, but then I'd prefer to ride my old steel frame anyway...
  • The Scientist
    Also, is that Lee Turner in the photo above?
  • hitter
    if you look closely you can see Lee in the bushes behind the riders ... just wearing his 'hollywood' shoe covers !
  • The Scientist
    Naylor shouldn't use his TT bike on Wednesdays because he hurts my ego when he can still cruise at 50 + all day while sitting on the bullhorns.

    Seriously though, it depends. I feel far more safe with him on a TT bike than I do with most other people on road bikes.
  • Terri
    That's not the point. The point is, most guys riding with TT bars aren't that good. They're budding TT riders/triathletes etc and it's not safe. You need to have some respect for the guys around you. If you want to be a lone wolf, that's fine, but go do it somewhere else.
  • why?
    Why have a tt bike behind you.....?
    If they aren’t going to stop in any hurry and are likely to impale you with those bars – wouldn’t you let them go first?
  • Ti rider
    I don't want them anywhere behind me or even next to me for that matter.
  • It's a TT, riding the bunch is no place for TT training.
  • Terri
    It's only a Race Of Truth on the tour. It's stupid and unsafe in group rides on open streets. Vote NO to TT bars.
  • AB
    TT bikes or aero bars aren't welcome on any bunch ride. Just like headphones, they make the rider and the rest of the bunch less safe, regardless of how good the rider is. Even if it's Lance Evans, he might be better on a TT bike than most on a road bike, but he'd be safer on a road bike.
  • "The Race Of Truth"

    ITT is a individual race against the clock of strength and endurance, slip streaming has no part ... unless of course you're riding in a TTT.

    I'd suggest the Beach Rd TT riders are mainly the tri guys, training for this seasons races many of whom may not be seasoned cyclists.
  • GFCdomestique
    It's been said before, but it is a discipline for the individual so there is no need to train in a bunch ride unless you are training in your TTT. You're only cheating yourself by drafting and it must be so hard to completely focus and get to time trial mind set riding in a bunch.
  • toneredd
    For everyone's safety,TT bars should be used ONLY for what they are designed for, Time Trials.

    As for no brakes in the hell ride, maybe that's why it's called the hell ride?
  • I would say it's fine as long as they sit behind/on the side of the bunch and don't participate in doing turns. As the anti-TT'er said, it's "not hard to do with the aerodynamic advantage." In Adelaide we have a pace line group that will often hit 55+km/h in the group and regularly have triathletes who know the rules and sit a couple of metres behind or to the side of the group and they don't complain.
  • Ed
    The first guy only has his own priorities in mind.

    Speaking of which isn't there a guy on a fixed gear bike that rides the hell ride without brakes? Crazy!!
  • Neil_Robinson
    It's possible you're talking of Andy White (http://www.fyxomatosis.com/), he did it in the past, but I don't think he's done it in a few years.
  • krashdavage
    Yes he did. Fixed, no brakes. Cut off jeans, Vans and toe clips and prob a bmx helmet. Gold!
  • Tommy_P
    Yes, but he had to be pushed up Oliver's hill to keep up. Impressive regardless.
  • so what happens when there is a call of "lights" ?
  • SimoCanno
    It is pretty simple as I see it...it is dangerous and really that is more than enough said.

    If you don’t have respect for your own safety then at least have it for others.

    I would also note that we shouldn’t make exceptions just because this person or that person is highly experienced etc. as the moment you open up the grey area it all becomes about shades of grey. Keep it black and white and it is simple.
  • Ben
    I think it depends on who it is and how they use their TT bikes in the pack. If someone like Drew Ginn wants to use the Hell Ride for his TT training and it will help him get the result he's looking for, then why not? It doesn't bother me, as long as he's safe.
  • juzb
    Drew Ginn sounds like a great bloke, but he is exactly the sort or person who I would have concerns about in a group riding situation on a TT bike- someone with a big engine, but with relatively less riding experience than his strength suggests. Just because he is preparing for the Nationals doesn't mean he can handle the bike as well as someone who has come up through juniors on the track, etc.

    In short, people on TT bikes are there under suffrance, and should bow to the will of the group. If the group is small and happy to have them in it, by all means go for it. In bigger groups, I reckon that they should stay clear, or at least ride with lots of respect for the others. Even on the bullhorns, TT bikes handle poorly.
  • jake
    if its the race of truth why not try and hold off the bunch as there TT training?
  • Paul
    Just like CT does, when I see aerobars or a timetrial bike in the bunch rides my only aim is to get ahead of it. These bikes are not designed to be ridden in groups even if held on the hoods. The UCI banned the use of this equipment in the peloton for good reason!
  • Gene
    Time trialing is an individual discipline and I don't know what the point is to mix it up in the bunches with the bull horns. The erratic nature of bunch rides is not what you'll be doing nor what you need to be training for an ITT. If the hard efforts and fast pace is what you're after, then ride your road bike and keep the TT bike to your solo rides - for my safety and yours!
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