I had the pleasure of working with Osteopath Dominic Briscomb (First Place Osteopathy) a couple months ago during the Sun Tour. He was such a captivating guy to listen to with a wealth of cycling related knowledge combined with his profession. He’s worked on loads of high profile PRO cyclists and amateurs alike. I’ve been nagging him to write some guest posts for me ever since and he’s just finally warming to the idea. There’s heaps of things I’m not qualified to write about and Dom will help close that gap. Thanks Dom! ::WW
By Dominic Briscomb
I am unashamedly for cycling and everything to do with it. However, as an osteopath and bike rider there is one thing I can’t deny – Your nether-regions are not for sitting on. Your feet are for standing on, your legs are for walking on, and your bum is for attaching your legs to your body. As cyclists we are still going to sit on them, so below are the factors that make your seat into a little cloud instead of a bed of nails.
If you are having a problem with your saddle, it is probably going to be numbness or saddle sores.
Numbness occurs when the nerve is not transmitting information. This can be a result of too much pressure being applied to that nerve. Its duration in proportional to the injury. i.e. It should resolve shortly after you get off your bike.
Saddle sores occur when the skin is sliding across the seat too much [WW - this is why we use small uncomfortable looking saddles instead of big plush ones!]. These may occur in a regular spot which is a possible indicator of poor cycling technique or a cycle fit problem.
Let’s divide the forces acting on your bum into those that occur on your seat, and those that occur throughout the rest of your body, but effect the seat.
Factors to do with your Seat
Saddle width
The best place for your weight to be on your ‘sit bones’ – two boney lumps where your hamstrings attach. These can be close together or further apart, depending on the size and shape of your pelvis. A lot of saddle manufacturers list a width (eg 125mm-145+mm) that should reflect the distance between your sit bones. Specialized have thrown a lot of energy into this and at the right shops you can sit on the ‘arse-o-meter’ (may not be its real name) and work out the measurement of your own anatomy.
This is important because if you have a wide gap and a narrow seat, all the pressure is going on… parts that can go numb easily.
The opposite combination, a narrow pelvis and a wide seat would mean that your legs rub the saddle and that may give you saddle sores.
So the whole ‘bike fit is important’ rhetoric may have something to it…
Saddle Shape
Saddles With a Cut-Out
A cut out in your saddle means that there are some areas of low or no pressure and some areas of high pressure. What makes a seat comfortable in my opinion is a low average pressure through-out the seat. Therefore the areas of high pressure may become an issue.
What really bugs me about them though is that in the rain, you get rain right up your ringer straight away. At least with a full saddle you can imagine there is a little warm dry patch somewhere there, and keep it that way until you get home.
Saddles Without A Nose
Every decade or so someone produces a seat without a nose – basically two pads to put your sit bones on. This would work if we rode stationary bikes, but the reality is that we use the front of the seat for balance and control of the bike. There may be reduced pressure, but you’d probably fall off them, which is why we don’t see more of them.
Factors “other than your seat”
If your seat height is too high and you are using clipless pedals, you are effectively pushing the seat into your nether-regions. Your seat might be fantastic, but the increase in pressure could give you numbness and saddle sores (as you try to reach down to the pedal on each pedal stroke).
In the same manner, if your handlebars are too low, you increase the pressure on your saddle by sort of falling forward off the seat.
If you have good pedaling technique you will be smoothly applying pressure through the pedals through most of the pedal stroke. Your body is like a coiled spring attached at the pedals through to the handlebars. You should have a low average pressure throughout the surface of the seat. I personally think it helps tremendously if you have long, strong hamstrings. So start stretching!
Opposite to the above is to sit on a bike seat like a bar stool with all your weight on your bum with your legs hanging out beneath you. There are obviously going to be problems. You will effectively be sitting like this if your cycling technique is terrible.
In summary, my recommendations for the saddle is to be the width of your sit bones, relatively flat on top, and without a cut out. My recommendations for the rider is to have long, strong hamstrings and a flexible low back.
{ 37 comments }
What are your thoughts on the amount of padding a seat has? I've been of the opinion that less is better, but would like an “experts” opinion.
Very interesting comment about saddle width causing saddle sores. My gf has a number of problems with ingrown hairs around here saddle areas, that waxing,shaving, chamois creams hasn't solved. I wonder if saddle width has anything to do with it?
does your girlfriend exfoliate? i've always had problems like your girlfriend and was told i should use a scrub mitt every second day to get rid of the dead skin – one of the most common causes of ingrown hairs. i still get 'em on occasion but it's nowhere near as bad as it used to be.
boys, the same goes for you. i know some guys get ingrown hairs just from shaving their legs. give your legs a good, hard scrub with a face washer if you don't want to go the whole hog and buy a mitt.
oh… and the other thing. moisturise! and not just with sunscreen on the legs – a proper moisturiser. if you don't know which one to pick, get your wife/girlfriend to pick one for you.
will – the chick who waxes my legs also told me that it's really important to make sure i moisturise my whole leg, including the… er… saddle areas. dry skin is a killer for ingrown hairs.
Now I know where the expression “numb nuts” comes from.
I get ingrowns *regardless* of what I do on my upper legs. Nothing I have tried stops them. Moisturising, exfoliating, lavender stuff, ti tree stuff – nothing works.
So, it's not just a case of wacking moisturises on and everythings gonna be alright.
I'm going to through this exact topic/problem at the moment. My new bike came with a San Marco ponza, which is quite an entry level saddle and I just can't get comfy on it. Currently trying out a mates used Fizik Arione and I'm finding that i'm sliding around too much on it. At first it was bit sore on nose part but after adjusting the angle slightly down that problem seems to have gone away. It's not so bad on the 40-50km rides but I did about 110km on Saturday and noticed a fair amount of discomcoft towards the end where the sit bones meet the saddle. Hopefully will be lucky enough to try out a mates Toupe next week..
I'm not sure how you can really buy a saddle without trying it out though. Do any places in Melbourne offer a trial program? I noticed that competitive cyclist have a trial program where they give you a bunch of saddle to try out for a small fee. The fee is then waived aside from the postage costs if your purchase a saddle from them. Would be good if there was something like this here in Melbourne.
Hi, The guys at Grandprix cycles in caulfield have such a program.
What about not shaving?
Not as outrageous as it might seem…?
Ironically enough I too have the ponza on my bike. Did the 250 ATB and not a single issue.
Maybe my butt isn't very fussy?
i had the fizik arione fitted to my road bike and has a similar problem, it is a great saddle but after about 120k the numbness set in and absolutely no position was comfortable, after some convincing i tried the selle smp composite (the one with no padding) and after a lot of adjusting, a zero set back set post i felt nothing. no pain or numbness after 60k, 120k or 200k, and when i ride the following day there is no tenderness in my nether region. just to add to this i have just finished building a crit bike and took it for a spin last week and the only spare saddle i had was the arione and i thought that a crit only goes for 50-60k and that it should be o.k. After about 10k i had numbness and couldn't find a comfortable position so i ended up buying another smp composite. every one is different so i'm not saying this will cure every ones problem but maybe its worth a try. i think the machine freedom the in prahan have a try b4 you buy.
For Will's girlfriend….and I know how serious this is or else I wouldn't be posting details of my anatomy on the web!
It's really f*n hard to find what works best, and until you get it, you're going to be in pain. I've had times where I needed a few days off the bike because of the pain from an ingrown hair. It's not a saddle sore as such, because that's really just a form of chafing. But they are ingrowns that you wouldn't have if you weren't riding. What is working best for me at the moment is after a wax, exfoliate every single shower. As Lauren said, you have to moisturise too. Trouble is, some moisturisers seem to block pores and make the situation worse. At the moment I'm using pure coconut oil (Nui), and it seems to be working a treat. The exfoliant I'm using is a salt scrub (Natio). I've tried the 'anti-ingrown' creams and lotions and liquids, which are basically chemical exfoliants. They don't seem to help much, and after a few days they are dissolving skin! Not good.
Good luck finding a solution mate :-)
I have just bought a SMP Saddle, and have never been more comfortable on the bike. It took a bit of work to get comfortable on this saddle though. In conjunction with the saddle, I found I had to adjust my “privates”, by pulling them forward toward my belly button.
Before making these changes, I was experiencing numbness after 15 minutes. This was even after a professional bike fit.
Since changing to the SMP saddle, and making a few private adjustments, I am now able to complete a 4 hour base ride in comfort I have not experience before.
My experience (for what it's worth) …. there are 2 essentual variables of a saddle
(1) is it flat (eg. Arione) or bowed (e.g. Concor) from to back; and
(2) is it flat (eg. SLR) or humped (e.g aspide) from side to side.
So there are 4 combinations of these shapes … though experience you find the one for you and the rest is detail that will make it the perfect one for you (saddle width, cover material, cover seams, amount of padding etc)
Then find an anti-bacterial mosturiser and life will be good.
Jayson,
If you think about it, a deck chair doesn't have any padding and yet is still comfortable, so padding in itself is not the cure for an uncomfortable seat. A deck chair is comfortable b/c the fabric has tension in it and supports you with, what I called in the article, a low average pressure through-out the seat.
Hope that helps ( and have a Merry Christmas ! )
Does anyone know where to find a 'Arse-o-Meter' in Melbourne……or how to otherwise measure the sit bones?
Hey,
as mentioned, the better shops have either a formal or informal trial program. It is a matter of being prepared to ask (and endure the withering looks if you are in the wrong bike shop).
I am interested in what you say about the Arione, b/c my patients usually find it pretty good. I put that down to the length and shape – most combinations of bums and privates can find a compromise position on it.
I think choosing a comfortable saddle comes down to finding a saddle shape that accommodates the combination of your unique sit bone width, and the unique shape of your private parts. A trial saddle program is as far as I can see, the only way around this.
Tim,
Here are some things to think about that may help (if you haven't already) –
If by 'upper legs' you mean inside upper legs, the front of your saddle may be too wide.
You may benefit from assessing your cycling technique and/or fit to ensure you aren't rubbing anything unneccesarily.
Everyones' skin and hair is unique, and there is an enormous industry capitalising on that. There is probably a product or combination that will clear your ills. Kylieonwheels was correct when she said some products clog your pores ; you want one that softens and cleans them so the hairs can find their way out.
Keep trying.
DIY Arse-o-meter: Two pieces of bread.
Line them up next to each other on a flat surface a bit below knee height (like a coffee table). Sit on them. Measure the distance between the centres of the compressed areas in the bread.
Do not eat the result.
The real thing is a piece of memory foam on a board. Bread is basically organic memory foam.
I can just picture doing this at home and the other half comes in.. lol
You could use the bread to make a sandwich for that obnoxious uncle who comes over on boxing day for a family bbq
I tried this and ended up with 3 compression points.
What am I doing wrong?
Unless your name is Dirk Diggler, you should only get two points.
How far below knee height is the surface you used? I used a coffee table which is about 300mm high and got two clean impressions (my knee height is 550mm). Lower would be better (as long as you can get your arse that low).
Size does matter.
What area of Melb are you in. You'll find most of the stores that do a reasonable amount of Avanti/Specialized prods will have one for fits. Try TFM Prahran or the boys at Hampton most Avanti plus stores also
I've had nothing but trouble with Competitive Cyclist – don't touch them with barge pole
I tried this with toast but the bread just stuck to by butt cheeks.
What should I do next? Butter the toast?
Call me.
(KIDDING!!!)
Try having a look at the FIZIK web site it has a new saddle sit method. I used the information obtained on it combined with a sit bone measurement on a piece of corrugated cardboard and ended up buying a Fizk Antares. Perfect for me. In the past I'd had a San Marco arrowhead and a Selle Italia SLR Gel flow, but the Antares is by far the best for me. So light yet so comfortable.
I also use chamois cream all the time now.
Freedom Machine Prahran
I am struggling with the arse-o-meter concept at the moment. What exactly is it measuring? Is is the anterior aspect of the ischial tuberosities? I am having a great deal of difficulty finding a saddle to fit me. Currently the best has been a cheap velo saddle with a cutout. I have the problem of 25 inch hips and consequently find it hard to find a narrow saddle. Anyone know of something really really narrow?
I totally agree. I used to have a saddle with more padding, and experienced more numbness than with a seat with little to no padding. I found that with more padding, the blood vessels were more likely to be cut off.
I too have had the same problem with the Arione.
My experience has been the width or the 'sit bone area' of the saddle seems a little too far forward in design. This I found uncomfortable as the triangular shape has a 'leaner/sharper' cut away, cutting into my glutes – compared to the S.Italia XRP on my other bike which has a more tailored and less dramatic cut away, and the 'sit area' is set further back. The Arione is also limited in the length of the nose when going full gas. A couple of positives however, the tail of the Arione has extra length which I found good for descending or braking and the suede strip down the middle is good for preventing slipping/movement.
I'm using all the wrong terminology here, Bicycling Australia published a very good article on everything to do with a saddle a few years ago.
I too am in the market for a new saddle, but am also weary, guess it can be difficult at times to just let the saddle 'where in'.
PS:- For the men don't forget seat angle is also important.
BSC in QV have this program, it's like $50 deposit and yours for a night or two. I used it to buy a Selle Italia Max Flite. It's heavy'ish, but very comfortable. FWIW, the Fizik Airone didn't agree with me. Wouldn't have known this without the trial program so very with the whole experience.
Try sour dough – a single large slice. If you've sensitive skin, try Spelt bread with organic soy butter, should slide ride off your rump
Great article – I love Osteo's, they touch you in special ways that only an Osteo can. Dom are you manipulative or cranial?
I'm back on a new bike after a nasty crash over a year ago in the Nth Rd Ride. The old Tarmac Pro had a great specialized seat with cut out – Alias 155 – I'm 190cm @ 83kgs, it worked a treat from the first ride. The new Noah though, has an SLR and has taken, what feels like forever, to break in.
My junk was always getting sore and for the first time I had ingrowns forming behind the scrot. I put this down to the off injury season, when I became a lower body gym junkie doing loads of leg presses, squats, calf raises, leg curls and leg extension. I put on 15kgs – tipped the scales at 97Kgs. I started developing muscles I'd never had before. My first ride back on the new bike was weird az, the new muscles could turn a furious pace for a few seconds, but they didin't agree with the seat and my lungs struggled to delivery oxygen. After a few months of short slow rides twice a week, to now long hard and fast rides (150km) the leg muscles have changed and the SLR seat works a treat.
As for shaving, I use Witch Hazel Lotion – I have oily Mediterranean skin, which is both sensitive and dry all at the same time – so ingrowns are part of the game. My tips, scrub before, shave with new blades only (get a massive 1000 razor pack from CostCo or on eBay) then while in the shower use Sorbelene to rinse skin down and to moisturise. Always use shaving cream to shave legs!! The Witch Hazel (which dries the skin and disinfects – good for people with similar genes to me), goes on after you get out the shower. After that I wait for my gapping Mediterranean pores to close, then apply a light moisturiser cream – Basil Lemon, by Korres Natural Products, is the current fav. It's like a walking with a food buffet on your legs…. Next day is crucial for my oily sensitive skin, scrub, and sorbelene to the nth degree – then admire your tan line in the mirror while your legs air dry…
For those who were wondering about chamois cremes and ingrown hairs and all that, this might be interesting to you. I just stumbled across Mad Alchemy (http://www.madalchemy.com/). They specialise in embrocation made from natural ingredients such as essential oils, but they also have a couple of chamois cremes on their website. In my experience, natural products are typically the best. They might not always be as instantly effective as their chemical equivalents, but in the long term they both work better, and look after your skin a lot better. Looks like they ship to Australia :-)
Lift the dangly bits! lol
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