Why Do They Hate Us???

I never really thought about it like that. It's kind of like walking into a party at midnight while you're stone cold sober and everyone else is completely smashed. A completely different mindset where both parties look like idiots – depending where you sit.

As a regular commuter it annoys me no end cyclists that cant make up their mind weather they are a cyclist or a pedestrian jumping up gutters to run reds ect but then expect the same courtesey on the road as other drivers i honestly think it is more of a jelousy thing by some drivers like if i have to sit in traffic in my car what gives you the right to duck and weave around me

The other one that hits home is expecially on beach road and i know i am going to get flamed for this one but here goes cause as a driver i can relate as well. On beach road like any road there are certain pinch points the one that comes to mind is riding in the city direction where it goes to one lane just before charman rd. I know riding 2 abreast is legal and in most situations the right thing but i think here is an area where single file is the go as there are median strips as well giving traffic no where to go plus it is on an incline slowing actual speed down. In this situation 2 abreast from a drivers point of view is annoying 3 abreast from attacks which i have seen is just abusing the right.

So my 2 cents if you are a commuter make your mind up are you a road user or pedestrian and dont change between the 2 several times on a ride

A training ride is a training ride not a race so i see no reason why single file cannot be adheared to on certain pinch points

I am a commuter 3 days a week a training rider 3 days per week and also a motor vehicle driver so i think i can say my view is balanced, however i will qualify also by saying coming from Sydney i actually find Melbourne drivers more agressive in terms of not letting other cars in etc

After seeing the traffic at a standstill on the freeway this morning I can't understand why anyone would even consider driving to work. I didn't see any bikes holding up that traffic however. I just laugh at them…

In fact, you are allowed to ride in 'vehicle' mode or in 'pedestrian' mode. That's one of the big advantages to commuting by bike – you can take whichever path is the most effective at the time and switch as you need to.

There are rules around what you can and can't do in each situation and every cyclist should know and follow them. Unfortunately most motorists don't have a clue about the rules for cyclists – and the road rules are not the same for cars as they are for bikes, despite the fact that both are 'vehicles'.

No, no, no!! Cyclists cause ALL the congestion (all of it! O NoZE!) and ALL of us break ALL the rules ALL of the time, whilst NONE of the motorists break ANY of the rules ANY time at all! We cause ALL the accidents ALL the time, we're super scary on the road too!

We're so naughty!

the problem with your argument is that pedestrian mode means getting off your bike and walking but the majority of cyclists don't do that. we ride on footpaths when we're not supposed and there are road laws that say we can't.

i'm guilty of using the footpath where necessary but i always give way to the people walking on it. i'm in their space and i pose a threat to them if i ride like i'm on the road. i certainly don't want to bowl someone over but i also don't want to get off and walk. so i try very hard to be courteous and non-threatening. as cyclists on the footpath in the pedestrians' space, we should give way to them.

Hmm, I'm speaking from a Tasmanian perspective – in Tasmania you can ride of the footpath at a maximum speed of 7km/h. That's pathetically slow, but it enables you to hop onto the footpath to get around traffic jams and red lights as needed, then hop back onto the road and keep going. Certainly there are many places on my commute where this is a big advantage.
I didn't realise this wasn't a national rule – perhaps Tasmania has this because we have no bike lanes.

ooops …you can ride ON the footpath…

What a pointless survey. Did they really need to go through the time, effort and money to find out that cyclists are the most disliked on the roads?

Article in the paper in Sydney today about the main road congestion speeds. One of the main roads has an average speed of 21km/hr in peak hour. Cars get annoyed because as they sit their in their car just burning fuel, we just ride straight past. Plenty of raod in peak hour where commuting is quicker.
I must say that swarming is the worst behaviour. Plenty of large groups do it here in Sydney on weekends and you can see the driver just thinking, what should i do? Break, you might hit someone, accelerate and hit someone. Some cyclists need to pull their heads in.

Love it Timbo!!!

Unfortunately it's in the Australian culture to hate cyclists. Whenever I start up with non-cycling friends about how the average motorist's attitude towards cyclists is dangerous the reaction is always along the lines of…”yeah but cyclists are so annoying, they hold up traffic, get in the way, and what's with the lycra etc etc. I'm sick of it. Like most readers of this blog I ride weekend mornings and try to get in 3 days during the week. I find Friday evening to be the most dangerous time out on the road as most bogans have had three or four cans by that time and are on their way down to the grog shop to get some more.

Good points, there are so many different types of cyclists and most of the time we get all lumped together (which can be a good or a bad thing). The best any of us can do is try and not look like a bunch of hooligans out on the road, but still stay competitive and train hard.

ahh… okay. i can see the sense in that particular rule.

you don't have any bike lanes in tassie? none at all?

You know there is this quote from Frenchman Gustave Flaubert. “There is no truth. There is only perception”.
Until the perception changes it makes little difference what the truth is (or in this case what the rules allow).
Education is one aspect that is sorely lacking in this country. Then there is behaviour which goes both ways.
For instance I was nearly clipped this morning (@ 5:40am mind you) on a 4 Lane Rd by some inconsiderate (cycling hating?) driver. What For? Who knows but surely I wasn't holding him up that time of morning.
I commend you CT for fighting the good fight. However & unfortunately the struggle will be long & hard before perception changes towards cyclists, so for now all we can do is play by the rules and monitor our own behaviour. Stay Safe!!!

Hhmm… it's kinda strange to read this particular blog post when I had a friend of mine verbally abuse me on the weekend for how I was riding my bike. He took great offence at my alleged inability to stay in the bike lane. Said I was arrogant.

Uhh.. yeah, okay.

This was from someone who is a friend. I don't know how we're going to win the PR war when we can't even convince our friends that the majority of cyclists on the road do abide by the road rules. The only reasons I stray out of the bike lane is because there's something on the road I don't want to ride over, I'm overtaking another cyclist or I'm riding with my housemate who is nervous in traffic and I ride on the outside of her to protect her – which is what I was doing on the weekend. I don't run red lights, I wait for pedestrians if I'm using a crossing or on the footpath, I stay in the bike lane, I do head checks before turning. I do all the right things but people still think I'm one of those arrogant cyclists.

It just sucks when we do the right thing but there's still the perception that we're always in the wrong or going to do something illegal.

(Sorry for the whinge but I figured I'd get a little sympathy here)

Its hard to argue with general motorists when you get stupid cyclists that run red lights , cross busy intersections illegally with no regard for their own safety let alone anybody else's safety.
I commute to work and i also group ride on the weekends and i have seen some stupid sh!t done by cyclists. My biggest problem commuting to work is not motorists but other cyclists.
I'm not blaming cyclists for our bad rep, motorists have a huge part to play in the bad rep stakes but if the bad apples played by the rules and showed some respect to other cyclists and motorists i would like to think that we wouldn't have such a bad reputation. The fact that we beat cabbies in the bad rep stakes is a huge isssue.

From your comment on the daily commuter, you seem to have generalised a group just as the survey unfairly did as well. Not all commuters run red lights and ride like an idiot.
You forget that antics of a few idiot on bikes (lycra and wool alike) make it very dangerous for everyone who cycles on the road; even more so for those who cycle everyday. There's enough dangerous drivers out in traffic already, there's no need to add more bad blood into traffic out there.

I did my time on the the NRR, and the Hellride, and numerous other Beach Road bunches. I also did my time at the front of Open competition in Australia, and overseas. Through competition you learn the value of good training, and to value your training time. Bunches such as the ones that operate on Beach Road offer little value to anyone serious about training to compete. They might give you the perception that you are competitive, but little else. CT is right, you engage in the Beach Road bunch mentality, and you help create a conflict by adding to the ever swelling numbers. The bigger the mass becomes, the more conflict it creates on the roads. No-one has an issue with 5-6 mates going riding on their bikes, but who has 100-150 mates to go riding with?. Thats right, no-one. So you cant claim that these bunches have a social function can you?. So what is the purpose of them?. Is it to train (no), is it to see your mates (no), or is it about something else. I think once you start trying to answer why you really do this, it becomes obvious as to why the general, non cycling public dont understand it. In Melbourne the best training is done far from the traffic, in the Dandenongs, or around the Northern suburbs.

I did my time on the the NRR, and the Hellride, and numerous other Beach Road bunches. I also did my time at the front of Open competition in Australia, and overseas. Through competition you learn the value of good training, and to value your training time. Bunches such as the ones that operate on Beach Road offer little value to anyone serious about training to compete. They might give you the perception that you are competitive, but little else. CT is right, you engage in the Beach Road bunch mentality, and you help create a conflict by adding to the ever swelling numbers. The bigger the mass becomes, the more conflict it creates on the roads. No-one has an issue with 5-6 mates going riding on their bikes, but who has 100-150 mates to go riding with?. Thats right, no-one. So you cant claim that these bunches have a social function can you?. So what is the purpose of them?. Is it to train (no), is it to see your mates (no), or is it about something else. I think once you start trying to answer why you really do this, it becomes obvious as to why the general, non cycling public dont understand it. In Melbourne the best training is done far from the traffic, in the Dandenongs, or around the Northern suburbs.

Hmm, there are certainly many types of cyclists but it seems to me the two main sorts the general car driving cyclist hater see's is lycra and non lycra.

The impression I get is the non lycra rider, who as CT points out usually flouts and breaks all sorts of rules, usually receives significantly less anger than the lycra wearer. Why? I can only guess but I think the non lycra guy who doesn’t wear a helmet and weaves in and out is someone they can at least relate to so somehow they don’t have the same 'issues' with them.

Now the lycra wearer though, they are smart arse gay bags who think they s@%t doesn’t stink in their bloody lycra etc. etc. I think the point that lycra wearers carry 'attitude' is probably somewhere on the money there. Really it seems that because we are so 'different' (not really but as noted by flinty72 'perception is reality') and have the self respect to be able to wear lycra and ride with passion and desire it just engenders something tribal against us.

Then the lycra wearers 'attitude' can at times be quite off putting too e.g. I realise people don’t want to unclip at lights but when they don’t but cant stay stationary and wander further and further into the intersection while trying to balance it is going to piss off car drivers, it pisses me off as a cyclist. If you can’t balance and not move into the intersection then just unclip, it aint that hard. Swarming and riding more than two abreast etc. as we have discussed before, all issues that we need to address. We are presently held to a higher standard of account so let’s live it and change the perception.

TK, while I don't disagree with you, surely its the minority of the overall cycling community your observing?
I can't help think that every driver complies with the rules 100% of the time, don't they. Yeah right…but the community & media don't perceive every car driver as a law breaking citizen so why are we tarnished differently.

couldn't agree more, Friday arvo is bike path time and stay off the roads as much as possible, i know a few people that refuse to ride home from work using roads on a Friday arvo 'cos their is too many spaz's driving.

I had the same reaction to you 'thejimdandy'. In fact I was initially quite angry. I'm a commuter and I know many people who are. We are well aware of the laws and abide by them. We also have no less a passion for our chosen mode of transport (rather than sport). It saddens me that a fellow bike user – albeit of a different kind – does a gross generalisation potentially only adding fuel to the fire. If we really want to change peoples attitudes then we need to choose our words carefully. It would really sadden me to read Wade's comments taken out of context and used against bike riders. That all said I do appreciate your point of remembering the mindset of other road users.

I had the same reaction to you 'thejimdandy'. In fact I was initially quite angry. I'm a commuter and I know many people who are. We are well aware of the laws and abide by them. We also have no less a passion for our chosen mode of transport (rather than sport). It saddens me that a fellow bike user – albeit of a different kind – does a gross generalisation potentially only adding fuel to the fire. If we really want to change peoples attitudes then we need to choose our words carefully. It would really sadden me to read Wade's comments taken out of context and used against bike riders. That all said I do appreciate your point of remembering the mindset of other road users.

My apologies for the generalization about commuters. I thought the “for example” would qualify that. On my way into the city this morning I saw 4 commuters pulling some stupid moves, but I also saw about 30 bonehead moves in the bunch ride this morn as well. Very different rules being broken but perception is the same…

Motorists seem to ignore the fact that other motorists are the ones that are most likely to kill them or their family members. They seem to have a high tolerance to the lunacy of other motorists on the road.
Every time I get into my car I'm constantly amazed at the tailgaters, the traffic weavers the speedsters etc.
They seem to have a code that forbids them to lay blame on their own kind.

I'd have to disagree with you on that Pete. The beach road rides are definitely social, you've just defined “social” too narrowly (hanging with you close mates). And they are definitely a training ride. Most of these riders will be competing in criteriums on weekends and other various races at many points throughout the year.

The issue is the behaviour of the packs. Just as motorists have the right to commute in their tens-of-thousands every day, cyclists have every right to commute/train/socialise in their hundreds each day; and beach road is a fantastic place for it. But that pack of cyclists, as CT has mentioned, need to adhere to the road rules and that means many hot-headed cyclists need to sharpen up their act.

Unfortunatly due to base human phsycology i doubt this will change as humans we have a great ability to externalise negative events the classic one is running up the rear of another vehicle if you run up the rear of another vehicile you are at fault plain and simple but how many stories do you hear of thier brake lights were out they stopped for no reason and a host of other reasons that it is not our fault

Same reaction happens between the interaction of motorists and cyclists to the car driver it is always the fault of the cyclists and vise versa real change will never happen until we start internalising, meaning when the car cuts us off our first thought is not d##k head but what could i have done differently in that situation

But unfortuanatly this goes against every base instinct of the human being by our dominant nature we love to be right this trait becomes more agressive when the strength of the peleton is around us i have heard language come out of people towards cars and other cyclists on group rides that they would never dare say in a one on one episode this is believe also contributes to the negative stereo type of cycling bunch rides

I actually found CT's post very measured and can completely relate to what he's saying.

He is an influential commentator in the cycling community and I hope this post makes all cyclists out there think about how the poor behaviour of a few can affect the whole community.

I commute and/or train six to seven days a week and it is bloody frustrating watching half a dozen other cyclists break all sorts of road rules with batting an eye-lid.

All I can think about is how much we suffer as a group due to these thoughtless few.

Commutegirl I think you're missing the point that your personal reputation on the road is deeply affected by these clowns who carry a far higher profile (and are more interesting to the media).

If some anti-cyclist journo wants to take CT out of context, believe me they will find a way to do it no matter how balanced or measured his writing is.

One word – 'tribe'. I recokon it's got to do wth tribal identity. Motorists see cyclists as coming from a completely different tribe (as exemplied by attire, fancy gear, freedom from traffic gridlocks etc) and the first instinct towards someone perceived as 'different' is distrust/dislike. Until proven otherwise. How do we address something that's not a rational thing?

One word – 'tribe'. I recokon it's got to do wth tribal identity. Motorists see cyclists as coming from a completely different tribe (as exemplied by attire, fancy gear, freedom from traffic gridlocks etc) and the first instinct towards someone perceived as 'different' is distrust/dislike. Until proven otherwise. How do we address something that's not a rational thing?

I think the biggest reason we get a bad rap is that most motorist only notice cyclists when they do something like run a red light, jump on the footpath etc. The good cyclist is often near invisible; they'll ride quietly past, out of harms way, invisible to the motorist adjusting their radio or thinking about dinner.

As I was stopped at the lights at Jacka Boulevard opp Luna Park a guy mounted the pavement at high speed (also endangering pedestrians) then hopped back onto the road further up so that he didn't have to stop at the red light. I heard a couple of young guys stoped at the lights with the windows down say “See that? These guys are @*#&%$…”.

When I caught the guy I tried to relay in the friendliest manner possible that doesn't do our image any good he fired up and said “Whatever man! F*** you! I don't do red lights!”.

Does anyone like red lights? They are a fact of life. Hopefully despite his bluster he will think twice from now on but what's the view on calling out people on bad behaviour? My wife is dead against it as she thinks I'll get into strife one day. I just tell her that they won't be able to catch me ;-)

Fair enough Lachy, but competing in a B-grade crit is hardly being competitive, and what possible social connection or gratification do you get from riding in a dangerous way with 90-150 other riders, all trying to hide from doing any real work?. Not sure I will ever understand the motivation behind that. If you want to see good cyclists in action, go enter a decent open level road race, where good cyclists who have learned their craft properly have respect for each other and compete hard at the same time. Safer than beach road bunches by maybe 400%. And races are permitted, they are marshalled, and other road users are considered. No beach road bunch will prepare you for a decent level of competition.

Well, actually, I was exaggerating a little. Hobart has two bike lanes, and one off-road bike path where there used to be a railway line, going in roughly the same direction as the two on-road bike lanes. There are also a few 'shared paths' around the place but their routes are so circuitous as to render them useless.

So basically you have no choice but to mix it up with the traffic and take a lane, and I reckon that puts most cyclists off commuting.

This is a fantastic post, Pete. Well done, and well put.
Whilst rides like the NRR offer a good test of base intensity (Tues, Thurs – I find doing these loads me up), they are by far and away not great proper training.

You're forgetting training done on weekends down toward the coast, or in the Macedon Ranges.

In races. Like a Combine season. Awesome training!

As I said, really good post.

What about the guys on the front. If I bowl up and work off the front/rolling turns with 6 others for 90 minutes or an hour, isn't that great training?

And I reckon it's a little harsh casting aspersions on B grade crits, people have to start somewhere.

If, for instance, I'm racing B grade club road events after only 8 months racing, is that not competitive? Where should I start from? Should I just train for 24 months until I am “competitive” – whatever that means.

Not having a go, just curious to see what you think.

Not all of us will be up there for open A grade events. I'd certainly love to be in the top 50 of an open A grade in 24 months, is that competitive? Or should I drop down and try and top 5-10 B grade to be competitive.

–Notwithstanding your points about “racing” in the NRR (I think if you work on the front, it's good training).

oh so sick of hearing the cyclist running the red light. i don't think that the minority of motorists attitudes will change in a quick hurry. hey i like to crank out 100k before a day of work on the iron knob road between whyalla and iron knob, there is plenty of room, little traffic and no lights, yet there is always a cowboy who misses you by half an inch in his B Double on such a ride. No need for such behaviour, they just don't like you. That won't change!!
Cyclist sporting behaviour on roads. Hmmm. there is a thing called a velodrome, do your bad stuff there.

Way to go Timbo! Contrary to what PeteJ may think being “competitive” is relative. You don't need to be an international superstar like PeteJ to be a competitive and safe rider.

CT – best description of the relationship between riders and non riders I've ever read – 100% spot on, best of all, clearly describing why teh buck stops with us – the riders. well done

I think Petes point was that if you are a competitive cyclist (i.e. participate in a sporting sense) Then your training time would be better spent with a specific training session with specific outcomes taking into account issues like periodisation, tapering, etc. rather than doing a couple of weekly bunch rides.

A bunch of riders 10+ would struggle to meet everyones ideal training needs, let alone a bunch of 50+.

Conor

The buck stops with us?

BG, I'm all for cyclists keeping our own backyard clean. Since the Cycliquette campaign started here, I've not only stuck tothe road rules (which I always did), but also tried to acknowledge drivers for any courtesy (even if it is legally required of them). However, even if all cyclists, of all types, obeyed all the rules, there would be drivers who hate us.

I think part of it comes from the fact that we are an easily identifiable group who drivers need to slow down for. We all know it only means they wait less at the next red light, but a lot of drivers just see the correlation “every time I see a cyclist I need to brake or change lanes, therefore the presence of cyclists slows me down”. This theory seems to be supported by the fact the next most disliked group of road users are trucks.

Also, in a car, a driver is anonymous, and safe, and therefore feels powerful. I'm sure most drivers also get angry when driving at other drivers, but since we are an identifiable group that is “different”, we bear the brunt of this anger in public.

So, unfortunately, I don't think we can completely solve this by simply being on our best behaviour. As pinarello413 pointed out, the red-light argument doesn't explain the verbal (and sometimes physical) intimidation of cyclists on the open road. We need to do what we can, but there needs to be a major culture shift amongst drivers for this to improve.

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Timbo glad you agree, only the 6 people on the front rolling hard turns are getting any benefit, and the original question remains, what are the other 90 people doing there?. Its about the created perception. I agree with your point on graded racing, you need to learn somewhere, and as part of that journey, you may well think that a bunch like the NRR offers you some benefit. In the main it dosent, sitting on your rollers, working to specifics, or creating strength in your legs by riding tempo into the wind or in the hills does. The truth is, and you well know it, most of the punters in those bunches are there to live out a middle aged fantasy, and at the risk of creating the conflict of the road we now see. Racing for a brown sign?. Well done, your'e my hero, let me buy you a coffee…… while we scrape the others off the road that touched wheels and flung themselves out in front of a car at Sandringham

Firstly, after riding on Beach Rd for 20 years, it still amazes me to watch the aberrant behaviour of a percentage of Melbourne's competitive cyclists. As a paramedic, it guts me to have to (often) pick up the pieces. I recall driving down Beach Rd in an ambulance after that poor old bloke got killed a few years back. Literally days after that happened, I watched a guy, riding by himself, cruise through a red light at the Dendy Street intersection like it wasn't even there. To me, such continued disregard for road laws is a gross lack of insight, and pure self-centred arrogance. Yes, motorists disobey them too, but does that then mean we as competitive cyclists should emulate them? I think not.

On a second note, I could not agree more with PeteJ's comments. He is so right about effective training. Sitting 50th wheel on the Hell Ride does very little for you, and I do question the true reason for peoples continued participation in such rides despite little benefit, great personal risk, opposition from the wider community, Cycling Victoria and most Cycling Clubs. Why not grab 5-10 mates, and smash turns down to the Peninsula (stopping at all lights, thereby increasing lactate tolerance…), or hit the 'Nongs or Kinglake, or get in the car and camp in Myrtleford for a night and hit Hotham a couple of times.

My thoughts…..

you forgot mt macedon, it seems to be the forgotten hill climb.

any serious rider would only use beach road as a thoroughfare to get to and from their training ride, so i wouldn't condemn those riders or the ones who use it as a recovery ride. i believe the main problem is the tag along riders at the back of a bunch who get caught out when a light turns red and the main riders make it through, they will be the riders who will break the law as they panic that will miss out on their soft ride. they should make a law that restricts bunches to 15-20 riders with a gap of at least 500metres unless overtaking. once you get out of melbourne then you could group up again for your training ride.

Um, Pete, you are a wee bit arrogant. The B Grade crit rider probably has a family and career. They probably have acheived, dare I say, as much in their lives as you have?

The reason they have grades is to provide competitive racing for all levels of experience and ability. Not everyone has the capacity to be a semi-professional athlete. If all the “non-competitive” cyclists left the sport you would be without the grassroots funding and support for your elite level of racing.

Your attitude turns so many people off the sport, and is not helpful.

I have an idea,why don't we all ride on the bike path next to beach rd.as fast as we can,about 60 kmp.should do it.Then we can see how many complaints about that we all get from the local papers.I You can not ride on the beach rd. bike path at more than 20kph. safely.So where do we ride safely at over thirty kph.?on the road.I ride on beach rd. every day to work and back and nearly every week i get some twit causing grief because they think i'm to blame for the traffic jams.To think i ride well after peak times too.

Nooo I totally disagree…. There is nothing to be gained riding in the dandenongs, northern suburbs, or out towards donna buang. They will in fact make you gain weight, loose muscle mass, and worst of all, there are not nearly enough smug coffee vendors. No one who had ever amounted to anything in Australian cycling has ever trained in those areas. All you beach road bunch riders should feel secure in the knowledge that you're in the best place possible. You're 733+! Stay far away… We're not good enough out our way to deserve your company. ;)

Do you drive out that way, or ride to the start? Still looking for a decent way to get out there without hitting too many cyclist unfriendly highways…

Did anyone see or fill in the survey? How was it worded “Who do you hate most Cyclists, Taxis or Trucks”? How many people completed the survey? Its probably another beat up by the press!
And to PeteJ, I agree that perhaps the NRR and the Hell ride is not the best training and I too have done my fair share of these over the years, but I live in Mentone and have job commitments, family commitments and a wife who works retail on weekends and Thursday nights, so it isnt possible for me to go on 3-4 hour rides in the hills and north of Melbourne as you sugest! I enjoy my riding and that why I do it! I ride with a group of 10-15 at a good pace on Beach Road.
I have raced at B/C grade and for me it was competitive so comments such as “but competing in a B-grade crit is hardly being competitive” are I feel the words of a tosser!
Don't pigeon hole people, we are all in the end individuals, that have to take responsibility for our own actions and can only suggest that others do the same.
Stay safe and enjoy your cycling in the form you like!

i would say that i'm lucky because i live in craigieburn so macedon is a 60k ride to the top, as is kinglake and mordialloc. macedon & kinglake are the work out days, mordialloc is the recovery day so i get a broad perspective of the different type of riders and drivers. i think the best way out of the city is via mt alexander rd to moonee ponds, take pascoe vale road to somerton road at roxburgh park then left to oaklands road to clarkfeild, take the diggers rest turn off which will bring you out to new gisborne then up to macedon. its about a 20k ride from the city to roxburgh park and roughly another 70k to the tearooms at mt macedon, they serve nice scones and coffee and the view from the cross is breathtaking. all up about 180k round trip

I don't think it matters where we cycle. I recently rode with 4 other guys to Sydney up the coast on a charity bike ride and a logging truck came within about 5cm of turning me into cyclist jam. There was no need for him to do that as the road was clear. He just hated me and gave no thought to the fact that he could so easily have wiped me out there and then. Probably wouldn't even have stopped. Then on Sunday we were riding back up Nepean when a black Clubsport goes past us within about 10 cm, drops speed then roars off, only for us to see him go round a single cyclist, slam the brakes on causing the guy to detour, takes off again and does the same thing except this time he actually hit the guy. Trouble for him was the next set of lights was at red, so we caught up, made sure he knew we had his number plate and that there were now four witnesses to his aggravated assault. He then gets out the car and starts mouthing off. Only when I said we are off to report it to the police and he should enjoy his new 20 stone cellmate did he shut up and roar off. I gave my name and number to the guy who had been hit who then went to the cops and reported it. They phoned me and I could reassure them I DID WANT TO make a statement to ensure it went all the way.
Main thing was that we remained calm and did not remonstrate with him there and then. I'd advise bide your time and always, always report them to the Police and always insist to them that you want to follow through. It is only when the Police and the Courts start taking it seriously will we change the thinking that it is okay to wipe out a cyclist or two.
I see this from the other side as well as a Doctor who treats way too many TAC claimants who have been riding their bike and hit by a car. Funnily enough I have yet to see a car driver who has been seriously injured by being hit by a cyclist.
Ride safe.

I agree with David. Driver attitude to cyclists is independent of location. It is simply more obvious where there are more road users. In two days I transfer my wife from RMH to Rehab facility after 9 week stay with multi trauma injuries, severe Acquired Brain Injury and probable spinal paralysis. She was struck from behind, by a driver in a stolen ute in a hit and run accident, while on a lovely sunny Saturday morning ride, on a quiet country road in Gippsland. Now charged, with more charges to come perhaps, the driver's defence to the unwitnessed incident will be “I did not see her” and she “swerved into me”. Accident Investigation will prove that he failed to avoid her and she did no wrong, but it is clear his attitude to the road cyclist was “couldn't care less”. And like other such court outcomes he'll get off with 2 years or less because he is only 21 years and we have a court system that sucks. Both my wife and I are General Practitioners.

I don't know what this mindset is called but it exists in cyclists/commuters also.
Think of shared bike paths. Now I run as well as ride and I have dam near been cleaned up good and proper by commuters on bikes screaming along the yarra boulevard path around St Kevins and other places when I train, shared paths are not meant to be a high speed domain for the commuter racer. This mindset I believe is exactly that of selfishness and arrogance. “Its war out there and its me against the world”.
Just ride smart and remember that to change others attitudes you need to show some how to, by doing it yourself first.
Thats my bit of peace love and understanding, soap box preaching for the day now its off to abuse a road user and cut some lanes.

The Herald Sun ????? Mmmmm

An interesting perspective. I hadn't considered the different mindset of cyclists and motorists.

I had a similar experience but while I was on my bike. My friend and I were taking it easy as it was my first time along that path (I'm a northern suburbs girl) and I nearly got cleaned up by some idiot who came charging up behind me. He braked so hard his tyres squealed and that was how I found out he was behind me. My friend said something to this idiot as he'd nearly cleaned me up and he threw back some insult and hurtled on his way.

You can't say anything to that sort of person because they simply don't care. You're merely an obstacle that's slowing them down.

Perfect example of Double Standards. While riding home last night I started to ride through a green light. I made it across 2 out of 4 lanes of St Kilda Road at the junction and some W@#ker Motorist decides to take off through a red light with no respect for me (who would have died if hit as he was doing 80km/h+) or other motorists. The fact the light had been red for about 10-15 seconds didn't seem to matter to him/her.

Just finished reading a book, “The Man who Cycled the World”, written by Mark Beaumont, who, as the name suggests, circumnavigated the globe on a bike. He rode over 29,000kms in 194 days across Europe, into Asia, Australia, New Zealand and the US. He made specific mention in the book about how bad he found Melbourne drivers and their illogical hatred of bikes. This experience was gathered by riding through the city once. No other city that he rode through gets a mention of road rage except our most liveable Melbourne…

Hello again

With a lack of education on both sides

There has been no driver education by the government so much so that in May last year the minster for roads in NSW stated
that cyclist have a right to use the roads but it is not helpful in peak hour traffic ( see attached article )

I was involved in this and I was disgusted that the driver after using his car as a weapon all he got was slap on the wrist

That sent a clear message to drivers that cyclist are fair game on the roads

People seem to forget we are brothers, sisters, son, daughters, husbands and wives that want to get home safely

It annoys me when I read or hear in the media how cyclist are a danger on the roads ………….I have yet to read or hear about an
accident between a cyclist and a car etc where the cyclist came out on top

I know as a cyclist we are not angels on the road but cyclists are not putting other people at risk like car driver etc with problems like talking/ texting on mobile phones, speeding and drink driving

I believe with more education on both sides ( with that I agree we need to clean up our act) that other road users may come to realise that we do not endanger other people for the most part compared to the damage a drunk driver etc

Sorry about this rant but from past experience we need a voice ……….when I was involved in the incident mentioned I was disgusted by the lack of support or voice of either Cycling NSW or any cycling Association ………..their silence was deafening

What hope do we have if the associations that are supposed to represent us cannot back us when we have an opportunity to get some positive media coverage rather than the constant negative media we normally get

Thanks for “listening”

While I think all road users have their nemesis group and such surveys are of little value, I do think Melbourne motorists are in a state of denial when it comes to present day traffic conditions. Melbourne has grown and expanded very quickly this decade and it's like motorists still think (or wish), its 10 years ago where we can all get up 40 minutes before work and dash off in our cars and still make it on time. They are still thinking this while parked on the four lane freeways into the city every single weekday morning.

I contrast this with Sydney where, in general, motorists seem to have accepted that traffic is abysmal and everyone just tries to get on with it. I often have Sydney people ask me whats with Melbourne motorists closing the gap rather then let you in when you indicate to change lanes?

I often say Melbourne drivers seem to have their brakes connected to their a$$hole bone. Instead of the vehicle slowing down, the horn gets held on, rude gestures are made and the verbal abuse starts to flow. All because they had to drop back to 3rd gear and will be five seconds later to arrive at the next set of red lights. Such irrational behavior can only be explained by a deep denial of modern traffic conditions.

When I say Melbourne motorists I include myself in that group. While I commute by bike each weekday I still get angry on the weekends when driving to a race or ride and wondering what the hell the 1000s of other cars think they're doing getting in my way!

Oh David… that is terrible. My heart is with you guys. I grew up in Gippsland and remember 2 girls at school who were hit and killed on those roads. I wish you and your wife all the best.

John, I am sure you have enough on your plate at the moment but when you get a chance have you thought about bringing it to the attention of your MP. Slowly we can change the mindset, then maybe we can change the law. I wish you both all the best. David

I have written elsewhere about experiences on Beach Rd Melb as a motorist and cyclist. A commute in the car from Mentone to Port Melb has never had more than 5 mins difference even with heavy cyclist traffic. Because I am a cyclist too, they are given plenty of room and I give way at pinch points if they are still in front. I've never had any reason to see cycle traffic as interfering with travel.

Why is the commute so consistent? I stick to the speed limit of 60, 50 and 40 where posted. I am amazed at how frequently other vehicles overtake to maintain speeds higher than the posted limit. i have also seen cyclist behaviour improve dramatically since the infamous red-light deatth to the point that the major red light/stop sign runners I see are cars/trucks at a ratio of about 3 to 1 cyclists perhaps even 5 to 1.

I also have the priveledge of watching cyclist/vehicle behaviour from a residence near Warrigal Rd/Beach Rd intersection. Again there is very little reason to blame cyclists for any of the so called crap at any time of day. We see some big bunches ride past, yet behaviour on the whole remains pretty good and times tend to avoid heavy traffic times. In the past we could earn some tidy pocket money from vehicle accidents art this intersection. Only once has a bike been involved and that was a recent incident where 2 bikes were struck from behind with a driver alledgedly 'under the influence'. I cannot add too much abouthis because it is still in the court system.

Behaviours that do greatly affect commute are vehicles parked for tradies building houses etc and the ubiqutous “beach goer”. For places like Beach road, the numbers of vehicles parked on the street is increasing dramatically. Councils need to investigate the necessity for some of this. I would also tend to think it not unreasonable to expect new buildings to provide parking each bedroom in the building. Not on you say but look at many modern families kids stay on well into adulthood and it is not uncommon for houses to have 4/5/6/ cars parked in and around. Many of the new building along beach road are massive, yet do not have enough storage for boats/vans and other vehicles. As more residents park on Beach road, the issue of heavy parking demands as with summer beach times makes commuting along Beach Road more difficult and this will increase dangers to cyclists of all persuasions.

Unfortunately I think cyclists are victims of the 5-tonne truck mentality. People lash out and blame others for their own short-comings and/or allow themselves to be under so much pressure to complete journeys in time etc. Bikes are smaller than cars and at times car drivers mistakenly blame the little 'guy' for their own suffering.

http://www.facebook.com/#/pages/Theres-a-perfec…

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Cool, thanks!

And I was just feeling pumped having worked my way up to B grade and being (relatively) competitive. Cue deflation: Pfffffffffff…….

I think we cyclists are a bit precious; to the point that I think we may exhibit a sense of “Little Man” syndrome. We need to accept our place in the food chain of the road and do our best to survive. No amount of moaning and blaming will fix it… Good luck and ride safely…

I think this guy has it sorted and there is a lesson for all of us.
http://www.27bslash6.com/bike.html

Hi David. Thanks for your interest. Local MP's were dismayed by it. In
the new year the local riding groups are planning a ride for Heather and I
expect that safety and driving on country roads will be highlighted. I
would anticipate that the MP's will then be invited to attend and become our
allies.
John

Well it seems to me that we all need to start making other riders start to see what their behavior on the road transmits to other road users.How many of you guys out there see riders shooting red lights and other things the same.I know even when we do the right thing we still get ignorant and abusive drivers doing stupid things.If i catch up to a driver now at lights after something like they were to close I say to them,”what you do if i drove that close to your car?”.I haven't had anything said back to me yet,so maybe their still thinking about it.

I have raced at B/C grade and for me it was competitive so comments such as “but competing in a B-grade crit is hardly being competitive” are I feel the words of a tosser!
Don't pigeon hole people, we are all in the end individuals, that have to take responsibility for our own actions and can only suggest that others do the same.

Can I just say that the biggest menace on my ride is riders like Wade – people who are competitive and ride quickly, usually on the wrong side of the path so as to cut the corner. The longer people like this are influential in cycling, the more it will be seen as a minority thing, a sport, a passion of weirdos wearing tight pants. Cycling needs to be seen as an everyday thing, a mode of tranport, a useful thing that can transform a city. This writer reminds me of why cycling sucks so badly in this nation, why the facilities are not geared towards the average Joe, and why so few people <1% ride. Wade I can give you plenty of reasons why they hate you, and as a regular slow cyclist, I'm pretty pissed off too. Never state that you represent “people like you and me”.

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