Melbourne Bunch Etiquette?

It’s not just group rides in Melbourne.

riders seem to lack any type of etiquette in any circumstance.

they’re completely inconsiderate not only of people in their group, but of other people riding / running / walking the roads and trails and of drivers on the roads.

then they’re amazed that anyone hates cyclists? even other cyclists don’t like them.

Totally agree CT.
I don’t live in Melbourne anymore. But when I do get down occasionally (Go Sainters!) and join a bunch ride down Beach Road, the situation you describe seems to happen frequently!
Much easier out of Melbourne where bunches are smaller and most share the work.

The worst thing is, if you make a gentle suggestion to the offending cyclist – in the interests of everyone being safe and enjoying the ride – and you get a defensive earful back. And to a girl! Why so much aggro?

Happens all the time in Sydney too unfortunately

Oooooh, you would love N.Z. C.T. half wheeling, no do turns,and yes those bloody attacks.

The 6.00 am Thursday morning ride etc, used to be run by Stuart Cook ( owned Grand Prix Cycles ) if you tried this type of shit, GOD HELP YOU, it’s time for the law to laid down by senior riders.

Even the HELL RIDE had an etiquette, yes hard to believe, but in the early 90′s when I rode it, it did, now look at it.

Do not know what is going on in Melbourne? but sounds as if a few people need there wings clipped.

Happens in Sydney too. Sure, the front gets a little broken up, but in a fair sized group the next group of guys seem to keep a steady, but somewhat stronger pace to catch up. The only issue is the less strong guys up back sometimes get dropped off, specially in the faster bunch. What’s more annoying is when the guy who attacked the front falls back, he rides up near the front by himself, ie. not in a pair, probably because he’s got no friends, and never moves back to his proper place.

Happens in Sydney too. Sure, the front gets a little broken up, but in a fair sized group the next group of guys seem to keep a steady, but somewhat stronger pace to catch up. The only issue is the less strong guys up back sometimes get dropped off, specially in the faster bunch. What’s more annoying is when the guy who attacked the front falls back, he rides up near the front by himself, ie. not in a pair, probably because he’s got no friends, and never moves back to his proper place.

Around here (Southern California) we get guys who attack, too. But, it is a “training” ride. The attackers are working on those skills, too. They’ll stay off the front for a minute or two, then sit up and come back. Even if it’s a small group. And if someone chases, they’re working that. Of course, the guys setting pace at the front don’t worry about it too much as they’re going too fast for anyone to really swarm them anyway.

This is just what happens when anything becomes more popular. The masses are invariably an unwashed bunch, and when they come to your party, they bring their own set of rules (read: none; they didn’t realise there were any).

As such CT, it’s great that you write about these things here, hopefully a few of the newbies read your blog and you make a difference :)

The worst thing about this, is most people that are causing this chaos are people who do not race. They go out there with their knees and bums flopping around, attacking a social bunch ride, thinking they are all high and mighty. Really they are just causing a danger zone! Beach road on a morning can have all levels of riders, not to mention the parked cars and angry drivers. People need to be to be taught the correct way to ride in a bunch and how to ride turns and get involved when the pace is high. It is fantastic to see how big cycling has become but unfortunately people get taught the basic etiquette from others who are doing the wrong thing.

The worst thing about this, is most people that are causing this chaos are people who do not race. They go out there with their knees and bums flopping around, attacking a social bunch ride, thinking they are all high and mighty. Really they are just causing a danger zone! Beach road on a morning can have all levels of riders, not to mention the parked cars and angry drivers. People need to be to be taught the correct way to ride in a bunch and how to ride turns and get involved when the pace is high. It is fantastic to see how big cycling has become but unfortunately people get taught the basic etiquette from others who are doing the wrong thing.

I am one of those riders that like to attack the bunch on beach road with the pure intention of disrupting those cyclists that are better than me. How else am going to get my 1 minute of fame, showing off my kit to the imaginary cameras and display sponsors names that I have never heard of or even know what they do.

I use this act of bravado to stroke my own ego due to my lack of training and experience on the bike. Then I wake up in a cold sweat with my hand on my d#$k to realise i am just a wanker.

I thik this sort of thing is bound to happen as cycling becomes more popular. You can’t have the huge number of extra participants without something like this, especially in a sport like cycling where fit but inexperienced riders can hang on the back of a group and find it easy.

I should add, this is why my mates and I have started riding north side (Kinglake etc)…still pretty quiet, behaviour better, smaller bunches, most people friendly (except the bogans in utes!).

I should probably add in one piece of advice for people who aren’t sure about how to roll turns properly without disrupting the pace:

The point of “rolling turns” is to smoothly ride past the leading cyclists, pull in front of him, and then ease off so the next guy can get around you. If you ride too hard past the front guy, a big gap will open up and you’ll be left out there all alone.

It stands to reason that large groups are going to be an absolute free for all. How can all 100 people riding in a bunch get any training benefits? The answer is simple. If you wanna train get half a dozen like minded and similarly conditioned riders and train – forget the big bunch. On the other hand if you want a less structured social type ride with a bit of spice thrown in (random stupidity) ride with 100 of your closest friends.

I don’t normally do group rides, but this makes a lot of sense to me.

Occasionally when riding along Beach Rd I catch up to a bunch of riders. On these rides, I’m trying to ride at a fairly constant pace (i.e., fast), and I overtake the group. My thinking is that if I can catch up to the group I am going faster than it, so I should overtake it. And if I just sit in the bunch I won’t get half the workout that I was getting. However, thanks to people being competitive, people often sit on my wheel when this happens. I have destroyed a group that consisted of a few strong riders and a bunch of not so strong riders before…

Look what happens when LA rides around France for 7 years. Team discovery gains a couple of hundred thousand extra middle aged dentists with too much time and money.

Look what happens when LA rides around France for 7 years. Team discovery gains a couple of hundred thousand extra middle aged dentists with too much time and money.

Wade,
Coming from an ex-Melbournian that used to live near the Brighton Rd corner & rode the “Hour of Power” often, here’s a couple of comments:
it used to be that Tue & Thurs were the true Hour of Power
Wed was meant to be little ring spin doing turns on Beach Rd
Mon & Fri were more of a coffee ride
what slowly happened was that those that couldn’t “win” the Hour of Power started to ride Wed as their HoP, disrupting the little ring spin as they decided that they could go faster in the big ring (therefore everyone else ended up in the big ring)
I suppose its now incarnated itself to an all in with no particular ‘guidance’ from a couple of Caulfield/Carnegie ‘patrons of the bunch’

Only way to avoid the all in carnage is to start a little earlier or later (as some bunches already do) and inform everyone before the start what is happening “today” – or otherwise put together a little ‘patron group’ who can control the bunch (a little) & if others wish to ‘ride their own ride’ (sprint off the front) ensure that the ‘patron group’ ride as such (others will follow – sort of).

As you once had from Tommy P – its all group psychology in the end!

From the Mexican in Sydney

Here’s a different viewpoint ….

I equally get pissed off with this sort of behaviour, there’s nothing like some chump launching up the side of the group, cutting in on the front, creating a surge only to die off 20m down the road and then everyone brakes into a tangled mess … not cool, have respect for your fellow riders … stick to it if you’re going to do it.

However …

I love the front, I’ll sit on there all day if I can. I love doing the work, the workhorse, be it setting the pace, riding into a head or cross wind, relieving the guys at the front, having another 20 riders sitting on, whatever, I love doing the work, I think a lot of us do.

Sometimes, a bunch may struggle into a headwind, nobody wants to do any work, the pace slows, there’s only the 4 guys at the front doing the work another 10-20 at the back sitting on, its hard to move up the bunch with everyone at the back, there’s no rolling turns at the back, bunches join, rhythms change, and so on.

With respect … I’ll roll up to the front and offer a turn, not attack like some hero (uncool), if I’m not wanted I’ll roll back, if they’re going to slow or choose not to I’ll keep riding, if the bunch is a steady pace or bangin’ I’ll sit in and wait my turn if it comes around, or I’ll position myself into the bunch where I can join the rolling turns. I’m conscious of etiquette and cutting in.

Am I guilty? … maybe.

I know staying out the front is another etiquette phenomena …

Sometimes the guys at the front or in the bunch appreciate the work, in fact someone said to his mate the other week after a half hour turn in a monster headwind “I don’t think he’s turned the pedals in anger yet”, I appreciated his comment.

Respect for other riders is the key here.

Good post Mr. CT. I think things have changed just in the last couple of years. 5.45 am North road rides on Tuesday and Thursday used to be a hard and fast but civilised work out. Somewhere in the last couple of years the level of aggression and arrogance has really gone up. It used to be that the bunch rolled down to Mordi in orderly pairs, and the pace cranked up past the roundabout, but still there were only two lines of cyclists.
How long until the North Road bunch is stopping at the lights and taking up two lanes, a la Hell Ride??
I suspect the way to minimise this is to minimise the numbers in the bunch?
Maybe we need a 5.40 bunch, and a 5.50 bunch?
Not for me, though. I have given them up as a bad loss, and found more civilised and less publicly well known groups to ride with.

From what I understand the 5:45 bunch was created because of this and has some good people making sure the etiquette is enforced. But damn…5:45?! That’s too early!

;-)

I agree Dave, I ride solo a lot too, if I’m faster or stronger than a bunch I’ll just keep going rather than sit on the back.

Having just come from my Club’s Tuesday morning ride, I can understand your frustration, but fortunately for me, I don’t experience it. We have set places for the rolling turns, set places where the stronger riders ride in front until they are ready to peel off in a pair and the next two take the lead, and yes set places where it is a bit of a free for all and the stronger riders can attack, counter attack, and sprint. This is all well known to the group and those that want to participate do, those that don’t stay at the back and hang on. They all know that there is a regroup so that they can catch up after the sprints and attacks

We all understand this. Weaker riders get better by following the stronger ones and can be part of the group and improve. The stronger riders get their workouts, rolling turns, sprints, attacks etc. Everyone is happy, everyone gets on well together and we work together to promote the cycling image.

I did however have to shake my head this morning at a rider we picked up along the way who decided to try and get to the front of the pack (all of us riding two up) trying to pass us as we came to a one lane roundabout. Made things a little tight, a few shaken heads, but ultimately no one got angry.

Makes me glad that I have found a great group to ride with.

I’ve been on the reverse. Started to work in with the guys at front rolling turns (after being picked up by a bunch) and for a few turns was no issue. Then 2 guys tried to run me off the road?? When I asked “dear sir, what is thy concern?” they started mumbling something about just “jumping in” when in fact I’d done exactly what CT/bunch ride etiquette demands.

And this was in a local ride that was not in Melbourne….frightening.

Damned if you do…..

You have 100+ egos plus testosterone riding around at speed and you think you can control it? Your not facing up to the reality that too many are sitting on ex$pensive kit, chatting about grams and pretending they are Pros. There is plenty of historical evidence to show the more men gathered together the lower the combined IQ becomes. Many people I know have opted to form groups that are much smaller to get over the issue of controlling the speed/roll. In truth attacking/sprinting on open roads is the equivalent of hoons in cars speeding. Coming through Brighton with the traffic to the right tightly packed is extremely dangerous. All group rides should end in a control finish. Racing should be for specific club events. The people at the back have been watching the people at the front talk one way but ride another. They are simply mimicking what they have seen. I have ridden the 6am NNR, from Mordi back its a shambles from front to back, nothing less than a 25km race. In Europe the rides tend to be club focussed. You simply stop people getting involved unless they have your kit on. If they have your kit on you will know them and if you know them you can discuss what is trying to be achieved.

I agree to a degree – the problem isn’t so much the show-off doing the attack it’s the sheep that join the swarm. If enough people just let the attacker go (and fry themselves), then there’d be very little issue.

I used to wonder (been off the bike for a year or so) how many of the guys in most of the big bunches are active club members and how many are pre-work warriors. There is often a bit of a clash between the aims of the two groups in the bunch. Some a training for racing, some are just (unofficially) racing. I think that one tactic to clip dangerous riders wings might be to ask them which club they’re a member of. It might help promote club membership and participation in real organised races (therefore more knowledge/ experience and different emphasis in group rides), rather than morning group rides turning into race simulations.

I sometimes do 0545h on Tues and Thursdays. The rotation seems to work pretty well most of the time, particularly if there is an experienced rider at the gate. If a new, willing worker comes to the front, it is his job to call it out and help the new rider get into the working group nice and smoothly. It is the days when there isn’t a good gate and people in the working group are dropping in and dropping out that you can get problems, but that seems to be rare in my experience of the ride. It’s when you get to Elwood that it turns into a bit of a race, but you’re talking about 2 or 3 minutes, not the whole ride.

Yes, 0545h is early and I live some distance away so it’s the working group or sleep in!

Ritch

I th

Most people will behave if they feel they are in the minority, ie the culture of a good bunch acting in unison. Often all it takes is for a senior rider to say a few words before a ride begins, ie what usually happens on a club ride. If guys want to launch then they should drop off the back of the bunch and play catch up.

Am in Sydney and often do the arvo Centennial Park roll around. The rules are very well understood and everyone knows that if you are going to attack its only on the last few laps. Until that time, its one lap on the front then roll off at the cannons. The front guys set the pace, sometimes its quite mild others its pretty hot.

I don’t think it’s a cultural thing, or even unique to a particular city. A weaker/newer/less experienced rider will always try to prove themselves in front of stronger/faster/more experienced ones…..it’s human nature.

Maybe the fact that it seems particularly common in Melbourne is related to the number of strong riders there, but I wouldn’t know.

Simply let them know if it’s not on. The old “I’m not angry, just disappointed in you” speech that your parents used works much better than a verbal tirade.

I don’t think it’s a cultural thing, or even unique to a particular city. A weaker/newer/less experienced rider will always try to prove themselves in front of stronger/faster/more experienced ones…..it’s human nature.

Maybe the fact that it seems particularly common in Melbourne is related to the number of strong riders there, but I wouldn’t know.

Simply let them know if it’s not on. The old “I’m not angry, just disappointed in you” speech that your parents used works much better than a verbal tirade.

I gotta say- i don’t think the perpertrators of the offence are reading this column, or if they are they’re in denial. The education has to be on the road, those with experience (lets call them top amateurs or A grade competitors) need to lead by example and control the bunch that has been created behind their wheels. We can all suggest that it is not our problem and the one’s sprinting off the front are to blame but ultimately it is an issue of safety and uniformity by a group of individuals with a range of experience and expected outcomes from a ride.

Frankly, if you sprint off the front you’d better be able to stay out there and not be seen by the pack again- that’s the challenge to you otherwise you deserve to be told to piss off and create your own pack.

Bring back the Biff? I hope not, but respect and safety should motivate many of our actions and not ego or enthusiastic impulse.

Bloody hell. There are some whiners in the Melbourne Cycling fraternity.

On an open road there will ALWAYS be many riders at different levels of skill. Deal with it. We all started out as newbie’s. Lets embrace those who are new or not as skilled as others. Yes I know sometimes you try and be helpful but get egg on your face. Well too bad, just be the bigger person and move on.

I started this sport as a kid. Some people at clubs helped me whilst others hated having a kid beat them and were wankers. What CT has written about is an annoyance, not an issue. In a race the bunch never works in perfect harmony, if you’re a good cyclist you can deal with the ebbs and flows of what is happening in a bunch. Same goes in a training bunch.

Yes in a perfect world we would all roll perfect turns, but nothing is perfect. Everyone has a different agenda. Personally I love it when one of the local pros hits the front so hard that no one can move up or around. It reminds me of how much better they are then the rest of the punters.

If you don’t enjoy how the bunch is, then please don’t turn up. Start your own bunch or ride on your own.. All I care about is safety and unless someone is inherently unsafe then they are more then welcome to ride how they like, when they like and where they like.

I don’t kow why but my initial post has disappeared.

Anyway, haveing just come from my Club’s Tuesday morning ride, I can understand your frustration, but fortunately have not experienced it over here in Perth. The club have set out the rules for the ride and everyone knows them. We have riders of varying skill and strength in the group. Those that want a workout or are strong go to the front and lead the pack. Those that are not as strong hang at the back and suck wheels. They may be getting just as bigger workout doing that as the guys that are stronger up the front. We have set points for rol throughs, and everyone knows these. Those that want to participate, do. Those that don’t, again hang to the back and suck wheels. We have set points that the group know is going to be a free for all sprint. Once again those that want to participate do, those that don’t, know there will be a regroup after the sprint to get back on the back of the group.

This gives a great workout for all. Strong riders up the front working, weaker riders at the back, still working and improving by riding at a higher pace than they are used to. Stronger riders getting an attack, counter attack, sprint. Weaker riders hanging at the back out of the way.

I am glad that I have found this group and don’t have to contend with the issues that have been raised here, but as some have said, maybe some of the “Patrons” need to lay down the law, outline what the ride is about, lead the group and stick with the plan. If someone sprints off the front on an easy spin, let them go, and tell the others to do so as well. If faster riders come through and pass, let them go and tell the group to as well.

Lets get some people standing up, instead of being scared of the pack mentality. The sooner this happens the better cycling simage will be.

Hopefully, the people that read this, CT, will act and stand up. I hope your rant can have a positive effect on these rides and riders.

Arrrrrrr…….My second diatribe has gone as well….I GIVE UP! Hope your rant has an effect CT!

(My posts keep disappearing)

as do mine.

With respect Nick, i believe your example is another issue all together? Riders joining in the roll from the inside after being picked up from the bunch is in my understanding, uncool.

My belief is that a rider needs to ‘earn’ his place in the bunch, not just force their way in as the bunch passes. CT, maybe you could clarify?

If that is how the supposed “cowboys” like to ride and gives them what they want from their morning exercise then so be it.

The “guys up the front” need to relax and realise it is a public road, they do not own it and if they want to be exclusive they can ride somewhere else.

At the end of the day, what super cyclist does group rides on beach rd anyway?

Everyone needs to relax, stop crying and stop thinking they are so important.

I love the cyclingtips blog BUT if you dont like such rides, make your own.

There are no “RULES” and the real problem with the cycling culture in Melbourne is that everyone who owns an expensive bike thinks they are special people. Incorrect.

sorry guys. Your comments got caught in the spam filter. I just approved them

Was absorbed into the bunch. Made my way from the back up to the front to do some work and all was well and good for the first little while, no one had an issue. Then two hombre’s decide to take issue and act the fool.
Even if there was an issue, is running off the road the answer? What about those innocent riders behind who could very well have gotten caught up?
There was also a greeting from me when they caught me and then let me in. No forcing.

Seriously, it’s egotistical attitudes like “earning a place” that make this all such an issue. If a guy is capable (ie: not a danger), strong enough and willing to roll through turns whilst others are happy to sit in behind then please, tell me where the problem lies?

Was absorbed into the bunch. Made my way from the back up to the front to do some work and all was well and good for the first little while, no one had an issue. Then two hombre’s decide to take issue and act the fool.
Even if there was an issue, is running off the road the answer? What about those innocent riders behind who could very well have gotten caught up?
There was also a greeting from me when they caught me and then let me in. No forcing.

Seriously, it’s egotistical attitudes like “earning a place” that make this all such an issue. If a guy is capable (ie: not a danger), strong enough and willing to roll through turns whilst others are happy to sit in behind then please, tell me where the problem lies?

Unfortunately you’re right about this. If you can clearly demonstrate that you’re strong/skilled enough to be up there then it’s fine, but if you’re an unknown quantity you’re probably going to get a few choice words from the bunch in this example. I copped it quite a few times for stupid reason when I first started riding in the group rides here. Not a good feeling…

The attempt to run you off the road was uncalled for.

They roll turns on 6amNNR?!

Since the UFC came to the 6amNRR I’m a regular 5:45er. I’m not so sure there are the same issues with this bunch. Everybody is mostly well-behaved. Example, this morning a rider pulled along side me and tried to move into the roll from the outside. A quite word in his ear explaining he needed to join from the rear, saw him do just that. Next thing he was rolling turns and everybody was happy.

Unfortunately there isn’t a rule-book to hand out to people that don’t know what the rules are (can somebody explain to me the etiqutte for joining into a bunch when it passes you?), so be kind, maybe they just don’t know… yet.

I was one of 5 guys, all in club kit rolling easy turns a few weeks ago on Beach Rd. As I dropped back after my turn I said to some random who’d latched onto the back us “It’s a club ride, would you mind letting me take that wheel” and the response? I was told to fuck myself because, and I quote “it’s a public road”.

I have no problem with someone sitting off the back and enjoying the ride (I do it often enough myself), but how about either respecting the fact it’s a club ride (it was sort of obvious).

The solution? We turned up the pace and 2k later he was dropped, never to be seen again.

No, that is not so-be-it. Screwing up a good working group by zooming up the side, past the front, dropping back in and then dropping out is tosspot behaviour and deserves derision. It isn’t a case of starting your own bunch ride – the butinski is the one coming in and stuffing it up. Perhaps they can spend a few rides watching to see how it works when done properly before doing so.

Ritch

Hmmm…..And now it appears……

So Anti-tosspots, you are saying lowest common denominator behaviour is not only acceptable but others should indeed make allowances for it so as not to stifle it
Here is my “cycling tip”, get down to a beach and try that while going for a wave… but, as you cry… it is a public wave… cycling is too civilised for its self it allows rude behaviour which escalates into an issue
I don’t ride beach road more than maybe once a month any more, because of these goons. The only ride I do has a core who are Veterans, and they don’t put up with that sort of crap, there are always words spoken at the end of every ride, but there are rarely repeat offenders.
BTW I am important, to me, but that doesnt make more more important, however, people who disrupt the rest of the group are saying that are more important than every one else

Thanks CT. You now have twice the Xponti Factor.

Like it …And straight away you can tell the difference between the psychology of a clubbie and someone who is not

(and honestly most people who read here but may not race still have a club mind set, the “Club” in that case being cycling… hey CT this may be a future post idea)

There is always one person that spoils a bunch ride. Best to try and make an example of him/her somehow so they wont do it again. Sometimes they learn, sometimes they don’t, sometimes they just fade away…. But always, there is someone to take their spot as the group twat.
There is one thing I have learnt from SA bunch rides….There will always be one.

There is always one person that spoils a bunch ride. Best to try and make an example of him/her somehow so they wont do it again. Sometimes they learn, sometimes they don’t, sometimes they just fade away…. But always, there is someone to take their spot as the group twat.
There is one thing I have learnt from SA bunch rides….There will always be one.

Interesting reading, none of this makes for a particularly welcoming vibe. I predominantly ride MTB but love riding the road too and I’d dearly like to get along to the 5.45 NRR as I really need to do more road riding. However it sounds like the ride is full aggro. Is this the case or is it just a select few? Any info appreciated…

Yes. There will always be one. The problem is that person A may view person B as the “one” and vice versa. Person C might think A and B are both toss heads and person D may not see any issue at all. We all see things from a different perspective which is worth bearing in mind when reminding others of our own self righteousness.

Could it be CT that your group ride could use a bit more organisation? If it’s a genuine training session, everyone in the bunch should have the responsibility/opportunity to pull a turn. When you pull off the front, you go to the back of the bunch. The desired pace should be determined prior to the ride. If the front-runners are too slow/fast, they need to told to go harder/ease up. Identify designated sprint points (usually where the roads are flat, wide and unlikely to contain traffic) so that the testosterone can be excised along with a regroup point for the weaker/CBF riders. Identify 5 or 6 like minded core individuals who will help to enforce the “rules” and then space them out within the group. Nominate a leader for the bunch and get the leader to spell out the terms of the ride before the start. Actively police the bunch with your core riders until the cowboys know their place. Worst case scenario and the bunch becomes unruly, instruct your core riders to pull over if need be. Most riders will act like sheep and also stop. Get the leader to lay down the ground rules again to the bunch on the road. Task your core riders with getting the other riders to shut up whilst the leader is speaking.

Basically, treat the bunch like a bunch of 12 year olds ie: expect misbehaviour unless the rules are enforced as well as provide a suitable opportunity for “release”. And remember that children crave boundaries…

That’s my two cents.

100+ riders in a bunch and you want some etiquette?

Now that is funny.

I might be finding something out that everyone else already knows, but…cycling is pretty much the only sport that people take up and never get any coaching in.

Tennis, swimming, footy, name another and I reckon you’ll find the newbies get coached. With surfing most just give it a bash and get better by doing it, but if you show bad etiquette (ie. drop in) expect to get beaten up.

Cycling, you just buy a bike and that’s about it. Where else would peopole throw themselves into a seriously dangerous situation, risking others as well?

Dunno why. That’s why I’ll be off Beach Road this summer whenever I can, it’s going to be carnage.

Sorry Anti-tosspots but when you’re brought down by the “relax man, it’s a public road” muppet you’ll understand the reason.

I’m pretty sure the flog who jumped up out of his saddle before Brighton Baths a few weeks ago taking down the three rows behind (including me) thinks he’s good rider and we should all “relax”. I was near the back because I know my limitations and it wasn’t my bunch. The guys around me seemed to be the same, it wasn’t a crash caused by smooth rolling turns put it that way.

I’ll take a bunch driven by the “guys up front” anyday. The worst those guys could do is hurt my feelings.

On the odd occasion I am joining a bunch I always ask, and the one time I’ve been told ‘no’ I’m fine with that. I know not to join a SKCC bunch, etc. and respect that.

‘Earn’ his place in the bunch.. That’s BULL !! It’s more like mates bunch and other riders aren’t too welcomed. That’s a fact. Etiquette, really, should start how riders act towards other users on the road. The ‘so called” bunch owners don’t always set a good example….This morning 2 or 3 of them were over in the second lane going towards Brighton train station. I was in my car unable to go through and holding back all the traffic behind me.

Wade, i see your point and avoid bunch rides for reasons like that, however it still comes across as a little elitist. If someone wants to ride off the front, let them. If people want to chase, let them, as long as noone is acting dangerously. If you want to train then get your 10 strong mates together and train properly. 100 random people in a bunch doesn’t sound like a professional training environment to me.

Hey CT, you go on these iconic bunch rides where you know there will be 100 + guys out, then complain that some didn’t ride the way you would like them to. If you want to do turns with 10 strong riders why not organise a ride with 10 strong riders? Seen me out there recently? Nop.. but I am riding, the way I want to. So many options in Melbourne.

Yeah Wade, quite bitching about NRR. Look at Rob’s comment a few posts ago, nothing good comes out of this story. Besides, it’s been done to death. It is what it is. If people don’t like it, they don’t have to it.

Rob. You are right, it doesn’t sound like a particularly welcoming vibe reading everyones gripes here.

But, re read the gripes as “Tips” to keep in mind when you head out, this should ensure you are well informed when you get amongst it and wont cop a spray that you probably wont understand as they ride past.

Always play a cool hand for your first few rides and you will see how everything plays out. Coffee afterward generally provides hints and tips for new players to pick up on.

Once you’ve got a couple of sessions under your belt, its very addictive and will certainly assist your mtb riding in so so many ways.

Billy Buster9 – your query relates to a lack of etiquette that bugs many bunches on Beach Rd but has a simple solution. You continue riding at the same pace as you have been until the bunch passes you and you can then jump on the back and usually join in rolling turns etc. The answer is not to increase pace and push into the middle of the bunch as many inexperienced guys try to do.

Having started my cycling life in Sydney with a great bunch ride, with a “ride master” (FYI a young Alex Malone – RIDE Mag) then moving to Adelaide where riding terrain is amazing but bunch riding scary and then move to Perth where bunch riding is very ordinary. I have come to think that in Sydney etiquette was established and reinforced (with vigor) primarily for safety, but in these other states traffic is lighter and therefore the need to ride safely is not considered as important or essential. Adelaide loved to use traffic intersections for “intermediate sprint points” WOW.

I am with you CT, I am regularly regarded as the angry man in bunch because I will not tolerate poor bunch etiquette. Education is the key and you are doing a good job of that.

//just a small comment,

melbourne != beach_road.

//just saying….

Well this morning I did a roller session.

3 sets of 9 x 20s spins in an easy gear. Worked my heart over nicely and blew the lactate from last night’s gym session out of my legs. I then cruised down to the cafe and caught up with the lads to catch up over the weekend’s racing. Then head to work enjoying the Brisbane spring sunshine. Perfect start to the day.

What you could think about asking yourself is, “What’s my plan?”

If I want to have a training ride that’s focussed, then I either DIY or get together with a small bunch of like minded mates and ride the plan.

If I want some action that’s fast, pushes my limits and a challenge, I’ll head to one of Brisso’s off road crit circuits on a Saturday morning and race.

If I feel like a bunch ride, then I’ll wind back the disciplined training plan – or forget it all together – and ride for the social side of things.

It’s just too hard to manage a swag of egos, so I don’t bother and I don’t get frustrated or have to deal with the risk of some fool putting me so at risk of a dumb crash.

That’s my plan. Everyone should work out what suits them. Much better way to enjoy life.

I can see now I should have explained what I meant by ‘earn’. What I meant by earn, was that all of the riders at the front of the bunch have worked their way to the front and not just turned at the church to be picked up to push-in at the front. I don’t like people who push-in… anywhere. It’s something I know I need to deal with.

Can ANYBODY advise IF there is a right/wrong way of joing a passing bunch?

you’ve hit the nail on the head there – why ride on Beach Road at all? Why does anyone prefer a mass bunch ride (or a constant stream) along a flat road over a solitary or small bunch ride through the rolling hills just past Lower Plenty?
I’m being deliberately antagonistic, but is it just because the Beach Rd ‘racers’ are more interested in comparing their gear? Are they afraid of terrain?

Nothing worse than seeing a bunch of hangers on on the back of the O2 or Nacional dudes tho.

@ BillyBuster9 – The issue is though BB is that riders from one bunch see it happen and then think it’s par for the course. So when they ride with a different bunch they pull the same stunt and the problem spreads.
All well and good to say “go elsewhere”. But that still ignores the fact that the behaviour is not acceptable and spoils the ride for a lot of others who don’t have the ability to up and start another group of their own.

er, at the back when they’ve all passed?

The hard one is getting passed by a ‘faster’ bunch that doesn’t actually seem to pass you, just swarms. Then when you’re slap bang in the middle of them, and they’re 3-4 wide it looks like you’re the problem. Usually I’m Zen and will soft pedal to make them go past them jump on the back, only once have I cracked the sh1ts about it.

this is what happens when cycling becomes the new golf….. plus people just want to say ” hey I do the Hell Ride, North Road Ride etc….”
Too many are just FIGJAM’s!

You go girl!

Great comments CT – I heartily agree, although I suspect that you might be riding on the 6am North Rd Ride (NRR), rather than the more gentlemanly 5:45am version.

Yes…today was the first time I rode the 6am bunch in months. And I immediately remembered the reason why I stopped riding it…

I have only been riding in Melbourne for a year after returning from the UK. What has struck me most is the lack of community on Beach Rd with too many frustrated and aggressive cyclists. What happened to giving your fellow cyclist a nod, wave or good morning? We are all cyclists (albeit with differing abilities) and we shouldn’t paint all newbies with the same brush. Many want to learn and as BillyBuster9 points out many just don’t know the etiquette and would appreciate a conversation about it rather than an elitist spray.

I really appreciate the tips and education I get from my LBS, CT (thanks WW), cycling mates and other riders about all things road particularly coming from a commuting background. A bunch ride can be intimidating for many newbies and you can get caught up in it on Beach Rd even if you haven’t set out on the ride…. and yes I always drop to the back. There will always be d%$#@&*s in everything we do in life but trying to break the ice is a great way to get everyone on the same page. Who knows, your club might even end up with a few new members.

CT. I refer to your post here

http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2010/09/im-nearly-a-mamil/

Yes, you are becoming a grumpy old man which equals you being a MAMIL!!! Ha ha.

Just yanking your chain.

The trouble with the inexperienced guys is 1. they are not patient enough to wait for the back of the bunch; 2. they don’t have the skill to look back for, or anticipate the last rider in the bunch; 3. they pick up speed when passed by a bunch and get lulled into believing the bunch has slowed (or they think they can stop the passing tide); and 4. ego.

I like the 0545 – but it’s way to slow on the way down for an hour of power. bit boring. if the 0545 would go fast and organised on the way down and back it’d be heaps better than 6am

There is one solution to all of this, do a Renshaw.

beach road is guilty of many groups with rolling turns and doing a great job, but average speed is less than 30km/hr….fair game for overtaking, esp if you want to stretch the legs………only then to find that said group to suddenly find the beans and catch and overtake the leg stretcher…..other option is to pull over and wait for the group to pass……..of head for the hills…..

Just a side question – Has your logo changed or are you getting all Google on us? (ie. tribute to Vuelta a España)

I can tell you another one, which I am also involved in, Motorsport (Circuit Racing)
And yes we have expensive and dangerous issues as well with the “rubbin’ is rancin’ attitude”
Funny how inherently more dangerous sports have less “policing”
(OK it is a observed test for an NC racing license, but once you have it there is basically zero follow up and peoples confidence tends to develop at a disproportionate rate to their skills)
Off beach road for summer! I am now off until AFTER Around the Bay (which I have also stopped doing) and never go on sunny days

Glad someone noticed! It took me hours to change it and I didn’t even get it right.

I change it during every Grand Tour since Google doesn’t honor this tradition.

There is a difference between racing, training and riding.

What is happening on Beach road I think, is it and cycling’s popularity is confusing them all.

Maybe if you are training then either find another venue or have someone tell the uninvited rider/s to move on.

I don’t ride Beach Rd for the very reason of its popularity its not why I ride.

Some times I think that people think that Beach Rd is the only place to ride in Melbourne.

A sub 30kph bunch, … (single file and keep left please).

I currently sit on around >35kph solo and I think a lot of others do too, so my encounters along B/Rd can often be misconstrued, if the bunch is riding slower than me, I’ll pass simple, if they chase my wheel I get frustrated. I ride to train, not train to ride.

I’d never pass a bunch outside my ability (too much shame in getting caught up the road unless intended) or for that matter a group of A graders (no matter what the speed) but if given the opportunity I’ll work my turn to the best and contest the sprint if I’ve got the legs.

I never cut in at the dance, and I don’t intend to on the road. :)

Nice, very nice.

Sometimes you need to roll through faster to thin out the amount rolling turns. Otherwise it becomes too slow and ever man and his dog wants in.

Sometimes you need to roll through faster to thin out the amount rolling turns. Otherwise it becomes too slow and ever man and his dog wants in.

Funniest thread i have read for a long time. Beach rd is soooo boring. I only ride their maybe once a month but next time i’m their i will liven it up a bit and make sure i attack and fade and then surge when i roll turns. Maybe just not roll over at all. It will be great!!!

wow, MATE!!! you sir sound like a genuine ahsole

You pretty much know what your’e getting if you roll up to the NRR these days. Lots of messy riding and a fair few who take offense when it’s politely suggested that in the interests of their own safety halfwheeling isnt a good idea.

Basics such as calling riders or cars up seem to have gone out the window a while ago.

Better off getting out there with a few like minded souls and a plan.

I wouldn’t waste your time riding NRR. In the w@#nkfest stakes it rates slightly less than the Hell Ride.

Like some other people have said, you can do better training solo or in small bunches with your mates.

i agree with the plenty, kinglake, strathewan area, great training area, we also have a small group that rides national blvd at nights, its well lit and quiet, a good range of flat and fast with rolling hills on the weekend. i hope all the beach road riders stay on beach road otherwise they will stuff up other great training areas with there anti social attitudes, take note the ride out to whittlesea now has become more popular and barely any groups you pass will acknowledge you. whats up with that? i feel sorry for the real riders on beach road trying to train with the attitude of the wheel suckers, the solution would be to have a law that limits bunches to a maximum number of riders and a set distance between groups, you would then get a similar situation to racing clubs where riders are grouped by ability (in this case speed) a fast paced group would drop all the slower riders to the next level and so on, then when you get an experienced group riding recovery then the slower ( less experienced) groups would be able to join in and gain valuable riding time with more experienced riders who should have the time to give some tips as they are not busting there arse pulling turns. its easy to get on a forum and throw rocks at other riders and also discriminate (bike brand, clothing, ability etc) but remember we have one thing in common, we all are bike riders, we should strengthen our culture and become bulletproof to the members of our community who will always try to bring us down. P.S. Wade. whenever you want to get over 100 responses all it seems you have to do is mention every ones “china doll”, namely BEACH ROAD……..

How cool would it be if someone (maybe CT) produced a flyer of some sort and put them in all the coffee shops along the Beach Rd to Mordy strip that actually outlined riding etiquette? I’m sure you could get a sponsor. I remember when I started golf, I needed people to explain to me the dos and don’ts. I reckon many of these people would love to know, but are too proud (or ignorant) to ask. If there was some sort of booklet that outlined these sort of unwritten rules it would solve many problems. Maybe the clubs; state federations; etc. could get on board and send it to all their members as well… just a thought…

Agree with Tommy and others… it’s a public road. Bad luck. If you want to roll turns with 10 strong guys there’s plenty of other options.

Well put DeanM.

To add to your thoughts find a link (below) that’s a repost from a club magazine that I found here: http://www.wvcc.org.nz/
They rehashed their website, so I can’t find the source document.

http://www.uqcycle.com/components/com_agora/img/members/21/Group-Rides.pdf

I think it offers some good brain food to chew over before you head out for your next group ride that’s a good summary of the sound advice given in the comments here. The quote (hope it’s accurate) from Phil Anderson speaks volumes too:

“Once I begin serious training, 80 percent of the time I’ll ride alone. Because you just can’t say, ‘I’ll see you in a couple of minutes, I have to go anaerobic now.’ So it’s a lonely type of training. But
you know what you have to do.”

Oh my god, 30kph single file and keep left, you knob. 35kph solo, good work Fabian.

Bright, next weekend big dog.

I suppose it depends on the “purpose” of the group ride. My first reaction is that 100 riders is too many…especially to have everyone on the same page as far as purpose. We have a group ride on Tuesdays that in some ways simulates a race with attacks all over the place. Other rides on the weekend tend to be more calm with the stronger guys tending to pull the others as you describe. However, on all of our group rides there are 2-3 sprints (city signs, etc.) and if we can find a big enough hill, a KOM.

The bottom line is we tend to know the purpose of the ride or the type of the ride it will be. That seems to be the issue with your ride…some riders have a different purpose. Sounds like it needs some leadership with an email string or simple web site stating when, where and the purpose of the rides. For instance, that group of 100 riders could be split. One group as a training ride with long fast pulls…no attacks. Second group could be a race simulation with sprint signs and attack all you want and the third ride could be an easier paced ride.

Bottom line is, I think it is hard to complain about riders attacking, if there is no stated purpose of the ride.

After reading all above comments…. that is why i ride with the same 6 or so blokes EVERY single ride. We do all our training and social rides together and mix up the pace, routes etc and we have none of these problems.

To those angry riders above, in the words of The Joker: “WHY SO SERIOUS!?”

To echo some of the above… this has always been the case on NRR Tues and Thurs and on Hell Ride. Maybe the guys pinging off the front are weaker now and cause more problems?? But it was like this five years ago – in fact it was like this 12 years ago.

To echo some of the above… this has always been the case on NRR Tues and Thurs and on Hell Ride. Maybe the guys pinging off the front are weaker now and cause more problems?? But it was like this five years ago – in fact it was like this 12 years ago.

It’s lack of training/teaching/education. Cycling clubs/bunches assume you’ll learn unwritten rules and etiquette through osmosis but how does someone know if the’re never taught properly. And in a bunch this big that will just get lost. risky and dangerous. It’s not just a matter of teaching through admonishing

It’s lack of training/teaching/education. Cycling clubs/bunches assume you’ll learn unwritten rules and etiquette through osmosis but how does someone know if the’re never taught properly. And in a bunch this big that will just get lost. risky and dangerous. It’s not just a matter of teaching through admonishing

Its looks like nobody that rides the North Road Ride in Melbourne saw this post yesterday. I did the 6am NRR today and it was attack after attack off the front by some of Melbourne most recognised teams. I must say IT WAS AWESOME! I love those rides like the Barkley st Tuesday night ride in Melbourne. If you don’t like the format of the rides, stay at home or do a different ride. Everyone knows what the 6am NRR is like. Do the 545 if you want a rolling format ride.

No one is making you turn up to these group rides. There are plenty of group ride in melbourne that are slower and safer. Stop complaining about these rides and start your own ride with a more suitable format or join a club that enforces there group ride rules. SKCC have a kit ride on Wednesday mornings that is a great rolling turn’s medium / hard paced ride. Join the club and do that ride.

Probably the worst part of the attack is the riders who decide in a nano second that they are going to follow without any consideration to their surroundings and clipping a couple of wheels in the process. There seems to be too many “Bastard Bunches” – large groups with experience ranging from zero to A-grade. I try to avoid Beach Rd whenever possible as it’s becoming more and more dangerous. Don’t forget that Around the Bay is just around the corner which tends to make weekend riding a REAL challenge!

I remember when I started golf. Hang on a minute. No I don’t.

If it’s any comfort, I noticed too!

re: etiquette brochure- yeah, a good thought ‘warrior..

People often won’t be told, and if the lesson is yelled at them in the heat of the moment it’s easy to dismiss the ‘teacher’ as a pedant or a wanker.. So initially I thought ‘overkill’ – but I reckon a flyer, even a few dot points, stuck in cafe windows would be a good way of spreading the word about how to fit in with a bunch.

re: etiquette brochure- yeah, a good thought ‘warrior..

People often won’t be told, and if the lesson is yelled at them in the heat of the moment it’s easy to dismiss the ‘teacher’ as a pedant or a wanker.. So initially I thought ‘overkill’ – but I reckon a flyer, even a few dot points, stuck in cafe windows would be a good way of spreading the word about how to fit in with a bunch.

Whatever you do, don’t come and ride down Mornington Peninsula, it’s really crap! Hills-a-plenty, mellow rides, cows, trees, the odd wanker but I’ve never seen any aggro personally. Maybe…..ummm…..keep that gear up there……

Whatever you do, don’t come and ride down Mornington Peninsula, it’s really crap! Hills-a-plenty, mellow rides, cows, trees, the odd wanker but I’ve never seen any aggro personally. Maybe…..ummm…..keep that gear up there……

The way down is the dangerous part with all the traffic lights. That’s why it is deliberately slower.

Unfortunately, unless you race (probably 20% of us? maybe less?) you don’t really know how good you are. If you’re just hooning around Beach Road in the middle of the big bunches, you probably think you’re a lot faster than you really are. And let’s face it, we all know someone that is a very strong and fit rider but has no bunch riding skills.
I love to recall a statistic from some years ago, when an insurance company surveyed their policy holders and recorded more than 70% of respondents thought they were above average drivers…….seems bike riders are just the same.

Once you get past Mordialloc the wankers fade out. Tip: Keep on going to Dromana and up Arthur’s Seat.

really? i haven’t seen an accident on the fast ride on the way down.

Don’t ride with them

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