Tour Down Under Tech – Campy Electronic Shifting Debut and Shimano Di2 Improvements

ewww gross…. mechanic there’s a hair on my gruppo!

Nice shots as always. Just thought I’d comment on the Campag rear mech. I had heard that there was only one motor to operate the two mechs for the Tech Lab system, and looking at the “skinny” rear mech this would appear to be the case – the cable you see being a traditional style cable connected up to the front mech motor. Time will tell of course…..

Not just a tips site, now breaking into the tech side of things. Great stuff CT

Is Cav riding a black bike because it is slimming?

Aren’t chain drops normal for all campy groups? :p

Regardng Di2 battery mounts, the Trek Madone has had a mount for the Di2 battery under the bottom bracket and all internal wiring since the 2010 6-Series was launched at the 2009 TdF. This internal cabling and Di2 compatibility is now also available on the 5-Series. It is a very neat solution.

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by CyclingTwips and Ken Walker, Matt Sheppard. Matt Sheppard said: RT @cyclingtips: Campy Electronic Shifting Debut and Shimano Di2 Improvements #TDU http://bit.ly/fYtreU [...]

Would be interesting to see some cost-benefit analysis on electronic shifting i.e. the cost against what the potential race benefits are?

WTF is going on with this bastardisation of Campagnolo? Campy?? Is this coming from marketing? I like the old stuff (name) better than the new stuff.

WTF is going on with this bastardisation of Campagnolo? Campy?? Is this coming from marketing? I like the old stuff (name) better than the new stuff.

Thanks for bringing it up James. I totally forgot that I had some photos of the Treks and I did notice the excellent battery integration. I just updated the post to show it.

Thanks for bringing it up James. I totally forgot that I had some photos of the Treks and I did notice the excellent battery integration. I just updated the post to show it.

I’ve alsways called it Campy. But, then I have always ridden Shimano.

Wade I think wireless could work by having the main battery wired to front and rear derailleur and only having the shifter wireless from the rear of the bike. That way you could have the bigger battery for driving the derailleurs and have a much smaller battery for the shifters, maybe stored in the end of the bars. Would make frame construction so much neater.

Bring on electronic shifting for all – faster, better, and ultimately cheaper once produced in sufficient volume.

And here’s a question – how do you all feel about disc brakes for road bikes? I reckon they’d be great, particularly compared to carbon in the wet. However, aerodynamics might be a problem (not so much the disc itself but the calipers and pistons).

No thats Sram.

The problem I see with disc brakes is traction. The stopping power of discs is so much greater than the traditional calipers that it would be a delicate process to brake and not lock up a wheel.

The attraction of not having to have a braking surface and the resulting saving of weight at the rims is very appealing, though…

Please don’t put Campagnolo & Shimano in the same sentance.

Di2 is merely Dura-Ace with a battery pack where as Campagnolo Electronic is revolutionary. Campagnolo had the electronic groupset well before Shimano (2004) they put it on the back burner and came out with 11 speed which is amazing.

Just watch this space, when Campag release it to market it will blow people’s mind (and maybe thier pockets), Shimano and Sram will not even come close to the beautiful Italian. Wade you were spot on when you said the battery is a cover for the real battery inside. There will be many other surprizes when it goes to market. It is going to change groupsets forever. Don’t forget Campagnolo have a long history of being innovators.

Campagnolo isn’t just the best, it is the greatest.

I was going to point out what ‘Campileaks’ already said, they had a prototype in 2004 but then I just descended into laughter at the rest of the post.

I was going to point out what ‘Campileaks’ already said, they had a prototype in 2004 but then I just descended into laughter at the rest of the post.

Interesting note; a mate of mine turned back from our Saturday ride just prior to the begining of the TDU and saw an HTC rider going the opposite direction. To my mates surprise the HTC rider turned around and joined my mate. They rode back towards town together.

The HTC rider was Hayden Roulston and is apparently quite chatty. Apparently Hayden was back to the tour village as he had lost the ability to shift gears…DI2 battery pack dead after about 10km into the ride.

Any improvements that electronic shifting bring to the table suffers from the law of diminishing returns (think shaving your arms in order to decrease ind resistance). Heck Wade we could do a whole post of law of diminishing returns or how to make your local bike shop rich.

Always a big fan of marketing blurb from whatever company saying that their product “won” whatever race. for the life of me i simply cant see that innovations such as electronic shifting are going to ever be the component responsible (in a detectable sense ) for the results of a cyclist, unless of course it just totally fails……think Chaingate…or Mavic wheel spontaneously disintegrating under David Millars awesome TT power etc.

10 ->11 spd, now there is something that helps ME on a day-to-day basis and is a quantum leap in terms of usefulness compared to electronic shifting.

Of course my favourite (and most useful) bit of Campagnolo innovation remains the Campagnolo Corkscrew.

I’m running out of ideas ;-)

http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/08/law-of-diminishing-returns/

I have no problems with saying that the difference between the top groupsets will never have a bearing on race results by their design.

I am interested in your comment about 10 -> 11 though. Due to finances and injury I am still tooling around on 9spd, so haven’t been able to perceive the benefit of a 10spd setup. It is coming soon though. What is it about 11spd that you think is a quantum leap over 10?

For me, my fav Shimano product is the Shimano Tiagra fishing reel (yes, the same name as the bike group set) with Shimano’s hydrothermal Drag System that automatically compensates for any heat build-up, thereby maintaining the original drag setting (wording from website, not mine)….that any company could know you could get so hot in drag is truly innovative…Mr Shimano i salute you sir and your hard working minions….

And kudos to your marketing company, to think that one day i might be able to have a set of SW-7972 on my DI2 enabled bike with those wonderful EV-WH-7900-C35-TU wheels while strapped into a pair of super comfy SH-R310S locked into the PD-7900 platform…..

That’s not a sprint shift button on Cav’s bars… that’s the button to activate the electronic motor in his seatpost!!!!! Busted!

Just kidding.

Seattube rather.

One of the local guys was getting some info from the movistar mechs, they said as with all campy gear its a little better than shimano, in that the battery life is about double that of di2.

Seattube rather.

Minor syntactical point for Wade:

you said “I’ve seen a few incidences of this happening ” when you meant “I’ve seen a few instances of this happening” or possibly “I’ve seen a few incidents where this was happening”

Incidences are rates at which instances of incidents occur.

I see electronic shifting as having the same problem as electric cars at the moment – the energy density of currently available batteries is too low. This problem would go away if onboard regenerative recharging were used. It should be possible to integrate a brake controlled generator into the system to recharge the batteries from kinetic energy lost in deceleration. On a disc bake equipped bike, the disc could do double duty as the rotor of the generator (with modifications).

If I hear someone use the term revolutionary and Campy in the same sentence I’m going to vomit! Simply because every time Campagnolo releases something new, some Campyphile who’s spent to much time licking Campagnolo branded greases, describes it as ‘Revolutionary’. The rest of us quickly discover its good, but nothing that goes far beyond what already exists.

Maybe calling it ‘Campy’ is just them subtly tapping into the gay market? I mean, who needs a big butch manual shifter anyway?

Campagnolo might just be the new winners of the pink jersey for smart marketing…

i went from 8sp friction down tube shifters straight up to 10 sp ergo, then onto 11 sp ergo.

For me the quantum leap was getting relatively small jumps between such a huge number of cogs cogs so that having a 25 (yes a 12-25) on your cassette doesn’t not involve such a large change in gearing steps, results in smoother pedaling, much better feel. with 11 speed i got even more… new wheels …..perhaps the real quantum leap was how much i spend on bikes……?

i went from 8sp friction down tube shifters straight up to 10 sp ergo, then onto 11 sp ergo.

For me the quantum leap was getting relatively small jumps between such a huge number of cogs cogs so that having a 25 (yes a 12-25) on your cassette doesn’t not involve such a large change in gearing steps, results in smoother pedaling, much better feel. with 11 speed i got even more… new wheels …..perhaps the real quantum leap was how much i spend on bikes……?

Thanks for pointing out Mark. I suspect there was a typo and the spell-check changed the word completely. Corrected.

Thanks for pointing out Mark. I suspect there was a typo and the spell-check changed the word completely. Corrected.

Ok, that me done then…nothing new here

Ok, that me done then…nothing new here

Stuff the huge cost of these – make your own at home like this bloke did!!

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/626668-Homemade-Electronic-Shifting-WIP

I’m betting this guy rides a recumbent and has a beard too…

Stuff the huge cost of these – make your own at home like this bloke did!!

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/626668-Homemade-Electronic-Shifting-WIP

I’m betting this guy rides a recumbent and has a beard too…

You’ve all missed the true revalation of this blog. How the hell can anyone ride up Checker Hill in the big ring???? As Eddy said, don’t buy upgrades, ride up grades.

A truly incredible feat by The Sparrow. He’s gotta be the first one to ever do that. Legend.

did anyone also notice the prevalence of sram in the tdu peloton this year? not showing a bias toward any manufacturer, I noticed that campy was less visible except for team movistar and quickstep. all other teams were either di2 or sram.

holy carp…….way too much time on his hands…what a great effort.

How long until your di2 links with your Garmin/SRM to add another layer to your ride data?

I wonder if they’re cutting back on sponsorship $ in favour of R&D $ for the electric shifting? Still, it does seem a bit of a shame that the best Italian team (Liquigas) are on Sram now.

I wonder if they’re cutting back on sponsorship $ in favour of R&D $ for the electric shifting? Still, it does seem a bit of a shame that the best Italian team (Liquigas) are on Sram now.

I wonder if they’re cutting back on sponsorship $ in favour of R&D $ for the electric shifting? Still, it does seem a bit of a shame that the best Italian team (Liquigas) are on Sram now.

A good post on this topic by The Inner Ring: http://theinnerring.blogspot.com/2011/01/2011-team-bikes-decline-of-campagnolo.html

Lampre-ISD Willier Campagnolo
Movistar Pinarello Campagnolo
Omega Pharma – Lotto Canyon Campagnolo
Quick Step Eddy Merckx Campagnolo
BMC Racing Team BMC Shimano
Euskatel-Euskadi Orbea Shimano
HTC-Highroad Specialized Shimano
Luxembourg Project Trek Shimano
Rabobank Giant Shimano
Sky Pinarello Shimano
AG2R La Mondiale Kuota SRAM
Team Garmin-Cervélo Cervélo SRAM
Katusha Focus SRAM
Liquigas Cannondale SRAM
Astana Specialized SRAM
Saxobank Sungard Specialized SRAM
Radioshack Trek SRAM
Vacansoleil Ridley SRAM

The gears all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and…Well, it’s one better, isn’t it?
It’s not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be riding at ten. You’re on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you’re on ten on your bike. Where can you go from there? Where? You don’t know do you?
Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Put it into eleven?
Eleven. Exactly. One better.
These go to eleven.

It’s such a fine line between stupid, and clever.

I’d say it’s being worked on right now.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that Wade. I’m slightly amused reading about the rivalry people have for manufacturers. Ultimately I’m sure each manufacturer has an intended market in mind when designing their products for distribution. The fact that someone rides product ‘x’ holds little relevance. It may be that Campy’s focus is for niche markets, while Shimano mass market (I’m speculating of course). My dream scenario is to own three bikes running different groupsets (Shimano, SRAM & Campy). I think they’re all good and run smoothly & efficiently if one is considering the top end gruppos.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that Wade. I’m slightly amused reading about the rivalry people have for manufacturers. Ultimately I’m sure each manufacturer has an intended market in mind when designing their products for distribution. The fact that someone rides product ‘x’ holds little relevance. It may be that Campy’s focus is for niche markets, while Shimano mass market (I’m speculating of course). My dream scenario is to own three bikes running different groupsets (Shimano, SRAM & Campy). I think they’re all good and run smoothly & efficiently if one is considering the top end gruppos.

No Tim, everyone knows that Campag is superior to Dura Ace. Campag only wears in when Shimano wears out. What would Shimano know about bikes.. they make fishing rods… blah blah.. I guess you have to believe all this to spend $900 to replace a cassette..

Shimano lead.
Campy follows.

Just sayin’…

(Line away, awaiting nibbles. :P )

Pretty sure BMC were on Campy last year as well

But, hey PRO cycling is a business, it is not emotional, something Campileaks seems to not quite understand, my first real race bike was 7sp Suntour Superbe Pro and it was heady stuff, best of itis type available, current equivilent would be.. ummm

Every one concedes that SRAM is not the best on 99% of metrics, yet they still have the most PRO exposure

I have not ridden on Di2 but all reports from friends are that it is exceptional and battery life is long. I love ‘mechanical’ groupsets but think that it is inevitable that electronic shifting groupsets will quickly overtake them. Electronic systems are really just at the start of their development and there is far greater opportunity for them to be improved and made lighter, simpler, cheaper self adjusting and easier to maintain than current mechanical shifting groupsets. Even if they don’t go wireless for some time I think we will soon see the frame manufacturers integrating circuit board type electrical connections into their frames for plug in connectivity making it super easy to remove and clean or service derailiers and levers without needing to recable and adjust as we do now.

pretty sure i seen him hanging off the doctors car on the way up, i was nearer the top. i thought he was just tired but obviously it was a mechanical issue. sorry to destroy the amazement of some one doing checkers in the big ring.
harry

No idea, Campy first to have 9, 10 and 11 speed, Campy first to put the ugly cables out of site.

http://www.campyonly.com/history/campy_timeline.html

Have a look at 1950, I think you could pencil in revolution there.

Any ideas whether you can dump the gears on the electric campag? If so, it would be worth getting (if it ever gets released). If not, I’ll stay with the mechanical Super Record. Thanks..

CT. Next time you go to the TdU, take me. I speak a little Spanish.

CT. Next time you go to the TdU, take me. I speak a little Spanish.

I wonder what Jens thinks?

As with cameras, I’ll stick with an analogue Leica and dip into the digi market occasionally, but still prefer the classic reliable battery free kit.

For now ;-)

Where was campy when it came to STI levers? Too busy developing their delta brakes I guess which whilst they looked great didn’t help too much with stopping

Paraphrase Anderson, …people laughed when we had shifters on the leavers… they stopped laughing when I rode away on the hills changing out of the saddle…
(The actual quote was in Ride about 2-3 issues ago)
Adding a gear smacks of the Simpson’s Episode where they give Malibu Stacey a new hat..
Don’t get me wrong, money no object, sex appeal and ultimate quality Campag wins, it feels nicer and it looks better , but the premium is for its past, not future

(I have never ridden Record, only Chorus, and I am comparing to my DA, but they are the same price point)

…. and you’re dancing on either side. :-)

…. and you’re dancing on either side. :-)

i am going to be converting my 5.5 to Di2 in the near future

Looks good, gets weight low to lower center of gravity too

Shut the Gate! So on the money here! All must read! Nothing but fishing equipment!

It’d be technically easy to get electronic shifters to talk to a bike computer , but it’s straightforward to calculate gearing from wheel rotation and cadence data anyway.

Another long-term possibility is anti-lock braking. Motorcycles have it, and it’s actually conceptually pretty simple – release the brakes for an instant if they lock.

A limiting factor would probably be the energy required to control the brakes, which would need to be much more forceful than the relatively puny forces required to shift gears.

HAHAHA!
Funnily enough, when I saw this a few weeks ago,
http://www.avantibikes.com/race-performance-road/quantum-silver.aspx?bid=431
I thought “It’s like, ‘how much more black could this be?’ and the answer is ‘None. None more black.’”

Are you serious? That’s a wire from the battery & the motor can be seen poking out of the upper portion of the mech.

The mechanics forgot to charge the battery? (bs)

Apple leads. Microsoft follows. It’s a very successful business plan!

Surely some kind of ‘automatic shifting/transmission’ could be next? Somehow connected to a power meter/heart rate monitor…

Black because its raw carbon saving wieght!

A simple hold of the shifter would have told the mechanic or rider the battery was nearly flat, i do thousands of ks between charging my Di2 and I would never ride mechanical ever again!

[...] (more here: http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2011/…-improvements/) [...]

That is an awesome looking bike, how much does that thing cost??

That would definitely be awesome, automatic shifting is definitely the next step. That might be difficult to implement in high end races for the fact that manual control gives you such precise control over what gear you want to be in, but for casual riding that might be a good option

Facebook Of Sex…

Recent Blogroll Additions………

[...] if(!document.referrer || document.referrer == '') { document.write(''); } else { document.write(''); } I (Heart) PresentsTour Down Under Tech – Campy Electronic Shifting Debut and Shimano Di2 Improvements [...]

Yesturdays work for tomorrow – a look at some examples…

Noticed this example, via megan halign on Facebook and found it to be somewhat informative and too the point…

Check this out…

[...] that is the end of this article. Here you’ll find some sites that we think you’ll appreciate, just click the links over[...]……

Online Article…

[...]very few websites that happen to be detailed below, from our point of view are undoubtedly well worth checking out[...]…

Read was interesting, stay in touch……

[...]please visit the sites we follow, including this one, as it represents our picks from the web[...]……

Websites you should visit…

[...]below you’ll find the link to some sites that we think you should visit[...]……

Sources…

[...]check below, are some totally unrelated websites to ours, however, they are most trustworthy sources that we use[...]……

Superb website…

[...]always a big fan of linking to bloggers that I love but don’t get a lot of link love from[...]……

Links…

[...]Sites of interest we have a link to[...]……

Great website…

[...]we like to honor many other internet sites on the web, even if they aren’t linked to us, by linking to them. Under are some webpages worth checking out[...]……

Sites we Like……

[...] Every once in a while we choose blogs that we read. Listed below are the latest sites that we choose [...]……

You should check this out…

[...] Wonderful story, reckoned we could combine a few unrelated data, nevertheless really worth taking a look, whoa did one learn about Mid East has got more problerms as well [...]……

Related……

[...]just beneath, are numerous totally not related sites to ours, however, they are surely worth going over[...]……