Sports Foods and Supplements – Where Do You Get Your Info?

BTW, if you’re seeing articles presented in the “similar entries” relating to magnesium, I’ve taken them down for the time being. They were guest posts from someone I trust, but I’m getting them reviewed to verify the information before I put them back up.

So, your advice (as an accredited sports dietitian)  on sports foods and supplements is to seek the advice of an accredited sports dietitian. 

I don’t bother with supplements myself. Nothing beats a balanced diet of fresh fruit, vegetables, organic meat and a healthy intake of red wine and chocolate! Not very PRO, but it works for me.

One way to improve performance is to get on the bike and ride the k’s. Novel I know, but apparently it works. Good article!

I was waiting for someone to pick up one this, however there’s no way of getting around some (perceived) minor conflicts of interest. 

Rest assured, Alan isn’t here to sell you anything. I’ve asked Alan to write for us since he knows what he’s talking about, no other reason. 

It’s great to ride lots of k’s, but to get the most out of yourself each and every session it is important to eat correctly. You’ll recover quicker and have the necessary amount of fuel to optimise your training, eg it’s important to eat the correct ratio of carbs/protien during and after a big ride to enable your body to replenish its energy stores and repair muscle fibres so you can get up the next day and do it all again. Another good scenario for this is stage racing.

So I can throw out that bottle of KMag pills that funnily enough never worked for me anyway. Id like to hear Alan’s advice for the average hack who is prone to severe cramps on big mountain rides but doesnt have the time or dedication to train hard enough to avoid them. 

The best supplement I have found is wrapped in a bright yellow, fibrous wrapping that is easy to get off and bio degradable. The supplement itself is tasty and good for you and not a result of industrial chemists. 

Bananas rock! Cyclones wiping out most of the crop and making the cost go through the roof is a downer, but it wont stop me eating them on rides.

You mean I read all the way through that and there’s no new pill or powder for me to buy to overcome my lack of training or lardy alcohol based diet? What a ripoff, and the last time I bother reading anything here.

Keep it up guys, I love the idea of reality based information, rather than marketing.

So, with regards to cramps, ok, there’s no link between Na, Mg etc loss, and cramps, so, what is the solution?
CT, will there be follow up posts?

Here’s what I have.

Bioceuticals Ultra MuscleEze Mg (nervous system health, muscle recovery)
Vitamin C, 1000mg 1 per day
Zinc+Vit B tablet at night

Acetyl L Carnitine – increase insulin sensitivity, strip fat

Protein: low lactose WPI (85% protein) – 1-2 x 45gram a day with water

I have glutamin post workout and also Australian Sports Nutrition Evolve Anabolic Injection (that’s what she said. Hey! HEY!) for recovery post race or big workout.

Sometimes have Berocca in morning.

Diet
Nuts (raw usually), fish, tinned salmon/tuna at lunch, lots of avocado, lean meat, vegies, pulses, 2 coffees a day (usually 2 x ristrettos in morning, 1 latte later), Kapai Puku (dear cyclists, get on this it rules), porridge.  Minimal bread or processed carbs.

I probably should go to a sports nutritionist and run some bloodwork.

So I am a prime candidate for this post and a follow up post on this stuff.

Key questions for me, and I guess others, would be:

1. What’s the first thing I should do (get blood done to determine, what, or indeed if, I have any deficiencies)?
2. During a big ride, how do I prevent cramp, keeping in mind I train properly and enough. And assuming I hydrate adequately and appropriately (include Na loading, perhaps via CT’s previous Secret Nasa Juice post). What should I hydrate with. Are Hammer Nutrition Enduralytes any good (I’ve found them to be very helpful). Other tips to minimise cramp?
3. How should I recover immediately after intense training or races (15-30 mins, 1 hr, 2 hrs etc)
4. What should a base vitamin load be to support neuromuscular health, nervous system health, sympathetic nervous system and adrenal health, and to support the amount of training, keeping in mind diet and training.
5. There is a lot of conflicting evidence and opinion in the value of protein supplements (many say the body cannot process more than X grams per day, others say it’s around 40grams per serve, and I’ve read too much protein is super bad for the kidneys. Who is right? How much is too much? What is a recommended, safe product with minimal artificial sugar, and minimal lactose and soy protein.
6. There are many more.

I guess these questions would be answered in a consultation.

So, with regards to cramps, ok, there’s no link between Na, Mg etc loss, and cramps, so, what is the solution?
CT, will there be follow up posts?

Here’s what I have.

Bioceuticals Ultra MuscleEze Mg (nervous system health, muscle recovery)
Vitamin C, 1000mg 1 per day
Zinc+Vit B tablet at night

Acetyl L Carnitine – increase insulin sensitivity, strip fat

Protein: low lactose WPI (85% protein) – 1-2 x 45gram a day with water

I have glutamin post workout and also Australian Sports Nutrition Evolve Anabolic Injection (that’s what she said. Hey! HEY!) for recovery post race or big workout.

Sometimes have Berocca in morning.

Diet
Nuts (raw usually), fish, tinned salmon/tuna at lunch, lots of avocado, lean meat, vegies, pulses, 2 coffees a day (usually 2 x ristrettos in morning, 1 latte later), Kapai Puku (dear cyclists, get on this it rules), porridge.  Minimal bread or processed carbs.

I probably should go to a sports nutritionist and run some bloodwork.

So I am a prime candidate for this post and a follow up post on this stuff.

Key questions for me, and I guess others, would be:

1. What’s the first thing I should do (get blood done to determine, what, or indeed if, I have any deficiencies)?
2. During a big ride, how do I prevent cramp, keeping in mind I train properly and enough. And assuming I hydrate adequately and appropriately (include Na loading, perhaps via CT’s previous Secret Nasa Juice post). What should I hydrate with. Are Hammer Nutrition Enduralytes any good (I’ve found them to be very helpful). Other tips to minimise cramp?
3. How should I recover immediately after intense training or races (15-30 mins, 1 hr, 2 hrs etc)
4. What should a base vitamin load be to support neuromuscular health, nervous system health, sympathetic nervous system and adrenal health, and to support the amount of training, keeping in mind diet and training.
5. There is a lot of conflicting evidence and opinion in the value of protein supplements (many say the body cannot process more than X grams per day, others say it’s around 40grams per serve, and I’ve read too much protein is super bad for the kidneys. Who is right? How much is too much? What is a recommended, safe product with minimal artificial sugar, and minimal lactose and soy protein.
6. There are many more.

I guess these questions would be answered in a consultation.

EPO is almost cheaper than good ol nana’s ATM :(

(I am kidding about the EPO part of course ;-) )

Interesting scare tactics in this article… I’m surprised you published this Wade.

What the author conveniently fails to point out is that almost every study ever done in the history of sports science has a similar study with opposing or dissimilar results. I believe you don’t need to consult a sports dietician to get the best from your training, just do some research and you’ll find that basics are best. Hydrate as much as possible, consume carbs every hour when training or racing and after training along with a whey protein drink- isolate is probably the best, eat healthy but not after 8pm and get as much sleep as you can. Drink plenty of fluids every day, eat small meals and eat more often. Doing other things like stressing less and smiling more also help (believe it or not…).And last, there have been many studies that adamantly refute the benefits of creatine, in fact they go as far as to say it is completely useless, whilst there are other’s which claim that it can give you more power or strength. Who is right? Could they both be right, it really depends on what works for you. Sometimes experimenting  to find out for yourself is the best way.

CT, you need to go a Uni Library and have a look at some Journals, conclusive evidence on nearly everything is almost impossible to find. Every study is set up in a different way with different intentions looking for different results. 

There isn’t always a right or a wrong. And as for the author decrying the benefits of magnesium whilst purporting those of creatine, I can assure you there are numerous studies that have concluded that creatine has absolutely no performance benefit, whilst other’s that completely disagree.  

CT, you need to go a Uni Library and have a look at some Journals, conclusive evidence on nearly everything is almost impossible to find. Every study is set up in a different way with different intentions looking for different results. 

There isn’t always a right or a wrong. And as for the author decrying the benefits of magnesium whilst purporting those of creatine, I can assure you there are numerous studies that have concluded that creatine has absolutely no performance benefit, whilst other’s that completely disagree.  

Man, it’s not just nutrition stuff either, it is getting so hard to find medical advice on the internet too…

And the correct ‘ratio’ is what? 

It’s not so much about ratio’s as amounts. For example, 30grams of protein and 100grams of carbs might be sufficient for one individual’s post race meal but that doesn’t mean the ratio should be 3.3 to 1 for everyone. 

I am married to my own personal Dietitian, and her recommendation…..Go and see a SPORTS dietitian.  She said that this area is specialised and that she as a qualified dietitian doesn’t have sufficient knowledge in this area to advise people.

She keeps me eating healthy food and gives general info on what I eat, but when it comes to performance enhancement, she as a QUALIFIED Dietitian admits that she is out of her league.

Unfortunately, you are just going to have to HTFU and do more k’s to condition your legs for the big km’s…:P

Thanks Sam. I realise that things like training and nutrition are like this, however I want to be
very careful that what I post is credible and I’m not passing on old
wives tales or incorrect information. Besides, I really didn’t like those posts very much in the first place. 

Evening Primrose Oil has always worked for me!

Since bio Diesel is a popular alternate fuel I have now converted my body to run on Chip fat

OK yeah that makes sense. I understand people have to more concerned about liability these days also. 

OK yeah that makes sense. I understand people have to more concerned about liability these days also. 

It is a valid point though, some people freak out at paying $2 for a banana  but will put $3 into a bar made of rice, oats and sugar where the marketing is worth 10 times the raw produce

During cyclone Larry, we just decided to buy them anyway as it was better for us (and our daughter) than a mars bar… I do admit we made sure we didn’t waste any, though…

It is a valid point though, some people freak out at paying $2 for a banana  but will put $3 into a bar made of rice, oats and sugar where the marketing is worth 10 times the raw produce

During cyclone Larry, we just decided to buy them anyway as it was better for us (and our daughter) than a mars bar… I do admit we made sure we didn’t waste any, though…

I’m with you on this one norbsy.

I appreciated that a qualified dietitian with training in sports nutrition and the associated scientific principles commented on our susceptibility to pseudo science and marketing.
I’m not a sports dietitian but “hydrate as much as possible” – hyponatremia?” carbs every hour” – why? The body stores a lot of carbohydrates. Where did you find out that milk with a complicated name is best?  And “not eating after 8pm”. Are you Cinderella and something weird happens after 8pm?
This article confirmed to me the value of seeing a qualified practicing sports dietitian to help sort out the scientific fact from marketing and wife’s tales.

How dietitians, doctors, physios or anyone else sort through seemingly conflicting research studies and draw conclusions is a complex process, and would probably take a post in itself to explain completely. But factors I would look at include who the study subjects were, the robustness of the measurements used, whether the outcomes measured translate into meaningful health or performance benefits in the real world, whether the finding can be replicated by different labs and whether that benefit is relevant to your chosen sport (or role within that sport). This is reasonably straight forward in pharmaceutical trials where you’re simply comparing one drug against a placebo pill but much more difficult in dietary, exercise or other lifestyle studies where’s there’s a lot of variables involved.

There’s at least 3 forms of creatine on the market, so comparing all “creatine” studies without drilling down to the specific type will definately produce conflicting results. But if you take one specific type (creatine monohydrate), in one group of people (elite strength/power sport athletes) with realistic outcome measures (eg. strength in weight lifting or sprinting performance over a relevant distance) from a number reptuable of research labs, you find the large majority of studies support its use in this group for this purpose. The Australian Insitute of Sport have a sports supplement policy and fact sheets on a variety of supplements – those that they support and supply to their athletes as well as those where they feel the evidence (on careful review) does not support its use. It’s updated annually to include any recent research in the area. http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/supplements

How dietitians, doctors, physios or anyone else sort through seemingly conflicting research studies and draw conclusions is a complex process, and would probably take a post in itself to explain completely. But factors I would look at include who the study subjects were, the robustness of the measurements used, whether the outcomes measured translate into meaningful health or performance benefits in the real world, whether the finding can be replicated by different labs and whether that benefit is relevant to your chosen sport (or role within that sport). This is reasonably straight forward in pharmaceutical trials where you’re simply comparing one drug against a placebo pill but much more difficult in dietary, exercise or other lifestyle studies where’s there’s a lot of variables involved.

There’s at least 3 forms of creatine on the market, so comparing all “creatine” studies without drilling down to the specific type will definately produce conflicting results. But if you take one specific type (creatine monohydrate), in one group of people (elite strength/power sport athletes) with realistic outcome measures (eg. strength in weight lifting or sprinting performance over a relevant distance) from a number reptuable of research labs, you find the large majority of studies support its use in this group for this purpose. The Australian Insitute of Sport have a sports supplement policy and fact sheets on a variety of supplements – those that they support and supply to their athletes as well as those where they feel the evidence (on careful review) does not support its use. It’s updated annually to include any recent research in the area. http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/supplements

Nothing wrong with that. As someone who makes a living out of selling advice myself (as I’m sure many readers of this blog do) I am aware of the frustrations arising out of a general public who thinks Dr Google is a substitute for professional advice tailored to one’s specific circumstances. All you Google geniuses have to remember that these things turn on the most minute of details so reading the material yourself may make you aware of the issues but won’t allow you to implement a program. Go and see a professional!

Nothing wrong with that. As someone who makes a living out of selling advice myself (as I’m sure many readers of this blog do) I am aware of the frustrations arising out of a general public who thinks Dr Google is a substitute for professional advice tailored to one’s specific circumstances. All you Google geniuses have to remember that these things turn on the most minute of details so reading the material yourself may make you aware of the issues but won’t allow you to implement a program. Go and see a professional!

I race cat 1 and use protein shakes in the morning to start the day (20g/d) and B-Alanine (2g/d; proven to decrease recovery times) during the racing season. I cut the B-Alanine during off season and take Vitamin D (2000 IU/d)…I live in Canada! 

I get my info myself as I’m doing a PhD in nutrition ;)

Oops, thats the right button….ahem…. Tim, I am far from being a dietician but over the last twenty odd years of reading about sport foods, hydration and cramping the conclusion I have come to is that cramping occurs more often from lack of muscle glycogen rather than dehydration. My understanding, and someone may be able to correct me here if I am wrong, is that the glycogen in the muscles allows for the relaxtion of the muscle via chemical reaction after the nerves have told the muscle to contract. When there is not enough glycogen to facilitate that reaction then the muscle can’t relax and you end up with a cramp. So i’d say your hydration is fine but maybe you need to take in a little bit more carbs to stave of muscle glycogen starvation.

My anecdote to support this is when i raced the Mont 24hr Solo in 2007. I was running around 6th-7th and trying to hold my place. About 8 hours in I started to get little cramps and got a little worried as I didn’t want to dealing with cramps the rest of the race. I new I was getting enough hydration but as I was going through my race food strategy in my head I realised I wasn’t getting enough of the right carbs in. Once I switched to more carbs both in the drink and switch from fruit (watermelon, rockmelon etc.) to jam rolls and bananas etc. the cramps drifted away. This I have only gone through once but kind of backed up what I have read up to now.

Any real experts can comment on this?

Site looks ace to Wade. Champion effort.

Haha, those were just general guidelines, and if you know of a better protein to use that is as quickly assimilated by the body immediately after a work out than whey protein isolate then it would be kind of you to let the medical and sporting world know about your findings… You’re not the only one that understands whey comes from milk.

I advised doing your own personal research, and actually if you look above the author of the article has now published a link for people to use as a reference guide so I would say that that is a good thing. I guess you’d rather keep people in the dark and do what most of those in your profession by only drip feeding small amounts of information to keep people on the hook…

Generally you can sleep better if you don’t eat too late- that was the reason for that comment. I believe it’s better to educate than spread fear of the unknown. But I appreciate you have a difference of opinion were that’s concerned so why don’t you all let us know how your views deviate from my general giudelines and why. That way we’ll all be better educated to make at least a partially informed decision until that time that we are able to come and see you in person. And taking comments out of context doesn’t make you look better, it just makes it clear you have an agenda.

A critique is only a valid argument if you either provide an alternative, and or reasons for your criticisms. Unfortunately, quoting Cinderella isn’t any use to anybody.

That’s a great link Alan, thanks. 

I’m using “The Paleo Diet For Athletes” by Loren Cordain and Joe Friel as my source of info. Cordain’s version of Paleo diet is a bit out of date (he’s still on the anti-fats wagon), but generally Mr McKenna here is right on the money (minus the red wine – naughty).  They add to the standard Paleo diet a system of timed carbs pre and post training to aid with recovery, but the focus is on fresh unprocessed foods rather than hi-tech supplements.

I’m using “The Paleo Diet For Athletes” by Loren Cordain and Joe Friel as my source of info. Cordain’s version of Paleo diet is a bit out of date (he’s still on the anti-fats wagon), but generally Mr McKenna here is right on the money (minus the red wine – naughty).  They add to the standard Paleo diet a system of timed carbs pre and post training to aid with recovery, but the focus is on fresh unprocessed foods rather than hi-tech supplements.

Tbh I just find it all a bit conflicting really, when out riding I carry banana’s and run Infinit in my bottles, which I calculate off the x grams by 1 kilo of body mass caculation, the Infinit has enough electrolyes, carbs etc for me and I seem to be able to race off that for over 6 hours no problem on the MTB, that works well for me.

I dont bother with protein shakes anymore as I dont think they give any benefit and just eat a balenced diet and make sure I carry a banana or two on training rides with my Infinit and maybe a Gel Bar as a absolute backup. For racing Infinit and Gel bars only is the way I go!

Before racing, I increase my hydration and concentrate on eating which has decent carbs in it, pasta etc but I dont overly Carbo load.

Thats it for me though, I dont do anything special…maybe I should.

Tbh I just find it all a bit conflicting really, when out riding I carry banana’s and run Infinit in my bottles, which I calculate off the x grams by 1 kilo of body mass caculation, the Infinit has enough electrolyes, carbs etc for me and I seem to be able to race off that for over 6 hours no problem on the MTB, that works well for me.

I dont bother with protein shakes anymore as I dont think they give any benefit and just eat a balenced diet and make sure I carry a banana or two on training rides with my Infinit and maybe a Gel Bar as a absolute backup. For racing Infinit and Gel bars only is the way I go!

Before racing, I increase my hydration and concentrate on eating which has decent carbs in it, pasta etc but I dont overly Carbo load.

Thats it for me though, I dont do anything special…maybe I should.

This is a great read – why up to 90% of medical research is flawed:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/8269/ 

 Here’s a question for you all:

say it was discovered that eating, I dunno, fried Siberian tiger testicles increased your FTP by 10%, but because they’re an endangered species one serving cost $500. 

Furthermore, there was some evidence they increase your risk of a heart attack in your 50s.

How many of you would have a problem with this?

 Here’s a question for you all:

say it was discovered that eating, I dunno, fried Siberian tiger testicles increased your FTP by 10%, but because they’re an endangered species one serving cost $500. 

Furthermore, there was some evidence they increase your risk of a heart attack in your 50s.

How many of you would have a problem with this?

then i would t-bag those tigers into the history books!

One word - viagra.

Gets you to HTFU like nothing else.

I found what looks like a reasonably balanced review of some research at http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/ezine.html
There’s a free downloadable book.  If nothing else, it’s quite a good place to start your own research. 
Disclaimer – I have nothing to do with this site, and there is no financial interest.  It’s just something I found once when looking for info.

Otherwise, “Eat food.  Not too much.  Mostly plants.”
http://michaelpollan.com/articles-archive/unhappy-meals/

Personally, I try to “eat right” as much as possible. To this end, I will read the nutritional information on the side of packaging, discarding foods with high saturated fat or too much sugar etc. I also try to eat plenty of fruit (I buy a bag of oranges each week to snack on at work).

I used to fall into a diet trap of eating crap during the week and then “being healthy” when I would go out for a long ride – ie. reduced calorie intake. I now try and eat well the whole time, but ensure I get on board as much (high carb) as I can during long rides.As far as supplements go:* Musashi Creatine (have seen 1 minute power and 5 second power increase while on this)* Salmon oil tablets (3 a day when I remember as I don’t eat fish generally)* Sports drinks (started using them in longer rides over 200km, to try and keep energy coming in)Did try magnesium in the past, but I think eating and drinking plenty before and during exercise has been more beneficial than the magnesium (haven’t had cramps for months after having a spell with them).

The book “Racing Weight” was a good read and included some advice on diet, supplements and sports nutrition. 

Hi,

If I take, for example, creatine and I see a measured improvement, if I keep taking the same amount, will I see increased improvement, or will it level out? Do I then need to take more?

How long do you use supplements for? If I don’t want to keep taking this stuff daily, then how long do you need to take it to peak for a particular time or event? Days, weeks??
Thanks

CT- the web rejig look good. Do you think you could do the same to my house? :)

Hi,

If I take, for example, creatine and I see a measured improvement, if I keep taking the same amount, will I see increased improvement, or will it level out? Do I then need to take more?

How long do you use supplements for? If I don’t want to keep taking this stuff daily, then how long do you need to take it to peak for a particular time or event? Days, weeks??
Thanks

CT- the web rejig look good. Do you think you could do the same to my house? :)

Spinach…
Well, it works for Popeye!

All good questions Tim, I’ll keep these in mind for any future posts.

I analyzed the packaging of a leading Sports supplement that was around $60 for the container versus my old morning favorite of Milo…  it was amazing to see all the levels in Milo were actually higher per 100g than the “HIGH PERFORMANCE” sports supplement. I saved myself $50 and got Milo again. It tasted better too!

I have spoken with a very highly regarded pro who informed me not to trust the sports supplements from many places can actually contain traces of performance enhancing drugs. I mentioned this as a prize winner at the Musashi Track competition in December 2009 and they said this was a factor in some supplements but clearly they did not produce any PEDs unlike some other large European and US brands. Also Anna Meares & Shane Perkins said they had a lot of faith in the product… I liked their freebies too :-P

[...] En läs värd artikel från Cycling Tips. [...]

creatine needs to be cycled, initial loading period then x3 times daily intake and then depletion after a short duration cycle usually dependent on the individual athlete.
 it usually only works for burst exercise and will assist in weight gain due to creatine carrying water into the muscle cell, similar to sodium and allowing the muscle greater contraction/ force.
the benefits to cycling is more off season whilst trying to gain muscle strength, but the usefulness in racing is negligible.
but note that individuals differ and if using any products give an athlete a boost whether it be a slight performance gain or a mental edge then usage may be worth it.

Creatine monohydrate supplementation is designed to maximise the store of creatine in the muscle, and therefore improve short duration (<15 sec), very high intensity bursts of exercise (eg. sets of weights or repeated sprints in AFL footy).

To maximise creatine stores there's a "loading" dose of creatine monohydrate (20-25g a day) for 1 week to maximise muscle creatine stores as much as possible, followed by a maintenance dose (3-5g/day) to keep stores at that level.  So if you want to take creatine to benefit a one-off event then you only need to start taking it a week before. However the benefit of creatine supplementation is for both training (maximising the intensity & therefore benefit of a session) as well as competition performance.

For more info on creatine here's the AIS fact sheet: http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/supplements/supplement_fact_sheets/group_a_supplements/creatine

Of course the protocol is different for other supplements. Bicarb loading (often used in track cycling) is a one-off dose taken a few hours before exercise. Beta-alanine on the other hand needs to be taken every day for several weeks to maximise its benefit.

Wade & Alan.

I like the underlying advice here, don’t believe the hype [marketing] and cycling myths, do the research and eat a balanced diet.I’ve enjoyed reading Phil Maffetone’s book on training and racing, a lot of out of the box stuff, but plenty of food for thought. http://rideinternational.posterous.com/training-racing

As a former gym junkie turned rider this book got me started on the process of post-workout recovery: http://www.amazon.com/Nutrient-Timing-Future-Sports-Nutrition/dp/1442974346/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306829610&sr=8-1

Yes, you have really have me waiting for your post on cramps!

The only supplement I take (beyond my emergency sports bars, which are tucked in my saddlebag just in case) are these ZERO HIGH5 electrolyte tablets I put into my water bottle. I would still put them in there even if they had no effect (they have a great taste and contain no sugar), but I’d love to know what I should do to avoid cramps.

Otherwise, I always take bananas, and ginger bread (“pain d’épice” as we call it here). The latter is easy to carry in a jersey pocket, is filling, contains honey and tastes fantastic. It is also much much cheaper than those sports bars.

Yes, you have really have me waiting for your post on cramps!

The only supplement I take (beyond my emergency sports bars, which are tucked in my saddlebag just in case) are these ZERO HIGH5 electrolyte tablets I put into my water bottle. I would still put them in there even if they had no effect (they have a great taste and contain no sugar), but I’d love to know what I should do to avoid cramps.

Otherwise, I always take bananas, and ginger bread (“pain d’épice” as we call it here). The latter is easy to carry in a jersey pocket, is filling, contains honey and tastes fantastic. It is also much much cheaper than those sports bars.

Did you bother to read the article before commenting? 

Where are the scare tactics? 

The author states that there are conflicting studies for many supplements, as well as cherry picked results without true scientific basis. 

The message is to take responsibility for what you put in your gob, do your own research and consult someone more learned than yourself when you come to the limits of your research ability.

Not sure where your negativity is coming from, I don’t see any threat to anyone’s health here!

Did you bother to read the article before commenting? 

Where are the scare tactics? 

The author states that there are conflicting studies for many supplements, as well as cherry picked results without true scientific basis. 

The message is to take responsibility for what you put in your gob, do your own research and consult someone more learned than yourself when you come to the limits of your research ability.

Not sure where your negativity is coming from, I don’t see any threat to anyone’s health here!

There’s some interesting stuff on nutrition, esp. to avoid cramping, in Chris McCormack’s new book, “I’m here to Win”. It’s a good read too, even if you’re not a tri-geek.

I met a couple of the pro riders from a Euro team at TDU, they had each eaten the 1 kg tea bone from the Gaucho Grill before one of the stages… ‘how did that work out for you?’ I asked. ‘for the first two hours I had the meat sweats… then in the last hour I had heaps of POWER!’ was the answer! :)

Sometimes is good to live in Brazil,  $1  usd = 2 kg of bananas.  $1/kg during winter times. :D

I’d like to ask about the benefits, if there’s any, of taking BCAA pills. I’ve seen a good number of cyclists using BCAA as a part of the daily routine, and I believe none of them know what exactly they are taking.

Ioannidis is great, but it’s important to flag that his point is not to burn down or ignore science. Rather the point is that scientists need to build better institutions. Also note that there is a difference between flawed and invalid. Nothing Ioannidis writes suggests that ‘make it up as you go along’ is better than research when it comes to medical (or similar) decision making. I’m sure you get this, but the title can be a little misleading and I hate (despise) the dangerous and intellectually weak attitude that people can just make their best guess at the truth without paying heed to empirical evidence, because the science is contradictory or flawed. Sure, it’s flawed, like every human institution. And yes, it’s often contradictory, so we need experts in a particular field to interpret the literature carefully.

One of the clear things here is that there is a whole spectrum of levels of which supplements are taken.. 

from “I just eat healthy” to “multivitamin and antioxidents” to I’ll take anything if there is a chance of it boosting my performance”

I guess a big part of it is really what you want to get from a) supplements and b) riding your bike.

One of the clear things here is that there is a whole spectrum of levels of which supplements are taken.. 

from “I just eat healthy” to “multivitamin and antioxidents” to I’ll take anything if there is a chance of it boosting my performance”

I guess a big part of it is really what you want to get from a) supplements and b) riding your bike.

I went through a big phase of spending $100 a month on supplements that I really didn’t understand why I was taking. I’m not sure if it helped (it’s doubtful), but all I do now is eat relatively healthy and make sure I eat the right stuff at the right times. It seems to work well. 

For a regular person like me, I could still make big gains by riding and eating smarter. 

I went through a big phase of spending $100 a month on supplements that I really didn’t understand why I was taking. I’m not sure if it helped (it’s doubtful), but all I do now is eat relatively healthy and make sure I eat the right stuff at the right times. It seems to work well. 

For a regular person like me, I could still make big gains by riding and eating smarter. 

+1 on experimenting (particularly re: creatine – I can lift way more mass with creatine).

Not sure about the scare tactics. It’s a really valid intro article, I think.
Cut through the mass marketing we are bombarded with to see what the process should be. 

You can’t just start having caffeine pills coz your mate says they strip fat.

Should you start having Ostelin? When should you get retested? Etc.

 re bA – ssssssh!

Hey Wade,
What would you think of doing a series of posts on what each sports related health care proffesional can do to help you, as well as their philosophy on treatment (without making any controvertial claims).  I know the chiropractic minefield is out there, but with a decent disclaimer on it etc I’m sure it could stay fairly even handed and interesting.

Hi Alan  – an interesting topic. I own a Health Food store in Melbourne and I’m also a keen cyclist. I have alot of riders through here with a variety of issues. For what it’s worth I’ll put this out there for added commentary hoping to avoid raising the question of vested interest, and stress that these are purely my opinions based on research, trial & error, customer outcomes, and personal experience. 

Performance enhancing supplements aside, I try to focus on optimising the functionality of the riders digestion, metabolism & immune system long before recommending ANY product claiming to enhance performance. If a rider’s liver function is compromised, glucose & fat metabolism will suffer and if immune function is down, so will recovery. The liver is reponsible for processing all things taken in, so taking any performance enhancing supplement will miss the mark if liver function is down. They may even make the rider’s performance worse as the already struggling liver tries to process them. There are many weekend warriors out there using the calorie burn from cycling as some kind of compensation for a poor diet. If you wan’t the best out of your ride, eat a clean wholefood alkaline diet at all times as a first priority. However, correcting imbalances through supplementation, I like the use of Milk Thistle & dandelion to cleanse the liver (first few days you make feel yuk from the toxic release), L-Glutamine as an anti catabolic and for immunity, along with Colostrum and Olive Leaf Extract. For digestion, a product called Iberogast in extreme cases, and/or a digestive enzyme formula and a probiotic. Iron levels are important, and if tested low, I like Gundersons Red Iron (ferrous sulphate) to correct it. I should point out here that these imbalances require accurate identification & diagnosis, and professional advise should be sought always.

Once in balance, only then can performance maximisation and fueling be considered. I like the use of Co Enzyme Q10 to maximise ATP (just ask Shane Perkins), Alpha Lipoic Acid for free radical elimination, and reseveratrol as an anti oxidant. For fueling other than food, a good electrolyte supplement, Balance brand gels (no fructose), maybe MCT oil and BCAA powder for muscle recovery. On the ever debated issue of creatine monohydrate, MY take on this is that only a high quality creatine should be used and it better suits track and crit racing due to the short term strength benefits, but the water weight & retention side affects may not suit an endurance rider.

As an observation, supplementation seems to benefit older riders more so than younger perhaps due to greater imbalances and age related decline in nutirent assimilation & organ function. 

Finally, I try to ensure that the calorie/calorie out balance & timing is monitored correctly along with the carb/fat/protein intake. 

Happy riding.

Hi Alan  – an interesting topic. I own a Health Food store in Melbourne and I’m also a keen cyclist. I have alot of riders through here with a variety of issues. For what it’s worth I’ll put this out there for added commentary hoping to avoid raising the question of vested interest, and stress that these are purely my opinions based on research, trial & error, customer outcomes, and personal experience. 

Performance enhancing supplements aside, I try to focus on optimising the functionality of the riders digestion, metabolism & immune system long before recommending ANY product claiming to enhance performance. If a rider’s liver function is compromised, glucose & fat metabolism will suffer and if immune function is down, so will recovery. The liver is reponsible for processing all things taken in, so taking any performance enhancing supplement will miss the mark if liver function is down. They may even make the rider’s performance worse as the already struggling liver tries to process them. There are many weekend warriors out there using the calorie burn from cycling as some kind of compensation for a poor diet. If you wan’t the best out of your ride, eat a clean wholefood alkaline diet at all times as a first priority. However, correcting imbalances through supplementation, I like the use of Milk Thistle & dandelion to cleanse the liver (first few days you make feel yuk from the toxic release), L-Glutamine as an anti catabolic and for immunity, along with Colostrum and Olive Leaf Extract. For digestion, a product called Iberogast in extreme cases, and/or a digestive enzyme formula and a probiotic. Iron levels are important, and if tested low, I like Gundersons Red Iron (ferrous sulphate) to correct it. I should point out here that these imbalances require accurate identification & diagnosis, and professional advise should be sought always.

Once in balance, only then can performance maximisation and fueling be considered. I like the use of Co Enzyme Q10 to maximise ATP (just ask Shane Perkins), Alpha Lipoic Acid for free radical elimination, and reseveratrol as an anti oxidant. For fueling other than food, a good electrolyte supplement, Balance brand gels (no fructose), maybe MCT oil and BCAA powder for muscle recovery. On the ever debated issue of creatine monohydrate, MY take on this is that only a high quality creatine should be used and it better suits track and crit racing due to the short term strength benefits, but the water weight & retention side affects may not suit an endurance rider.

As an observation, supplementation seems to benefit older riders more so than younger perhaps due to greater imbalances and age related decline in nutirent assimilation & organ function. 

Finally, I try to ensure that the calorie/calorie out balance & timing is monitored correctly along with the carb/fat/protein intake. 

Happy riding.

This would make a good topic for questions in your “Ask the PRO” entry!

This would make a good topic for questions in your “Ask the PRO” entry!

You could ask a pro what they do for nutrition and why, then compare it to professional, scientifically literate advice. Then you could write a series of posts about how the guy who wrote about natural talent not being a real thing was wrong. We’ll find that some people are talented at cycling and another set of people are talented at interpreting and explaining the scientific literature to provide sound advice on training and nutrition.

By chiropractic minefield do you mean that (i) it was created (literally) by a snake oil salesman as a means to get rich, (ii) its posited mechanism of action is founded in science fiction, not science, (iii) chiropractic treatment performs no better than placebo when studied, (iv) chiropractors have been known to discourage patients from following through on sound medical advice (eg – don’t vaccinate yourself or your children) or (v) that it is possible that some chiropractic manipulations could lead to serious harm  or death in a minority of patients.

See a dietician. Not a nutritionist.

See a Physiotherapist. Not a chiropractor.

(And there’s almost no overlap between those groups…)

I’m new to the forum so I may not be ‘getting’ the humor here?

If this is not a joke, Wade you need to clean up your act if you want an intelligent discussion with a variety of differing professional opinions.

Thanks for stopping by Dave. I do not moderate or censor comments here (unless it’s extremely inappropriate) and you’re more than welcome to dispute anything anyone says. I don’t necessarily endorse the views of the comments underneath each post, but I’m sure many people don’t agree with many things I say either. 

 Excellent response. :-)

Hi,

Thanks for all the information. As far as I am concerned I get all the information on these supplements through my fitness trainer and he surely is a pro at it.:)

Not a joke, Dave. I think what you mean is, is it possible to find references or other means by which to substantiate your claims, which are admittedly forcefully expressed. The answer is yes. Thanks for asking.

A good summary: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18280103

(i) Read any history of chiropractics. Wikipedia is a good start. Chiropractics was founded by DD Palmer: magnetic healer, well known crank.

(ii) From a chiropractics journal (just so you know it is not only the haters…) http://chiromt.com/content/13/1/17

(iii) Maybe I was a little unsubtle/unfair in my language here. Cochrane review shows chiro is ok for lower back pain, but only when combined with therapies borrowed from other treatment modalities. Provides no evidence chiro works as claimed. http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab005427.html Other reviews show it does not work for asthma, incontinence, and many other things. Why does this matter? Because many chiropractors claim they can treat many things other than lower back pain.

(iv) There are many documented instances of this. Google will find some. There are many complaints to health boards about this in the UK, NZ, Australia, etc.

(v) There are documented cases of vertebral artery dissection leading to vetebral artery dissection, stroke and death. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20642715 – there are some reasons to be skeptical of the evidence on this (can only accumulate case reports and observations, difficult to study systematically). Still, why take the risk?

I might add some other things… chiropractors have a history of selectively quoting the literature, misunderstanding/misrepresenting the validity of case reports in making inferences about clinical practice, and litigating against scientists who criticise them.

Not a joke, Dave. I think what you mean is, is it possible to find references or other means by which to substantiate your claims, which are admittedly forcefully expressed. The answer is yes. Thanks for asking.

A good summary: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18280103

(i) Read any history of chiropractics. Wikipedia is a good start. Chiropractics was founded by DD Palmer: magnetic healer, well known crank.

(ii) From a chiropractics journal (just so you know it is not only the haters…) http://chiromt.com/content/13/1/17

(iii) Maybe I was a little unsubtle/unfair in my language here. Cochrane review shows chiro is ok for lower back pain, but only when combined with therapies borrowed from other treatment modalities. Provides no evidence chiro works as claimed. http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab005427.html Other reviews show it does not work for asthma, incontinence, and many other things. Why does this matter? Because many chiropractors claim they can treat many things other than lower back pain.

(iv) There are many documented instances of this. Google will find some. There are many complaints to health boards about this in the UK, NZ, Australia, etc.

(v) There are documented cases of vertebral artery dissection leading to vetebral artery dissection, stroke and death. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20642715 – there are some reasons to be skeptical of the evidence on this (can only accumulate case reports and observations, difficult to study systematically). Still, why take the risk?

I might add some other things… chiropractors have a history of selectively quoting the literature, misunderstanding/misrepresenting the validity of case reports in making inferences about clinical practice, and litigating against scientists who criticise them.

Not a joke, Dave. I think what you mean is, is it possible to find references or other means by which to substantiate your claims, which are admittedly forcefully expressed. The answer is yes. Thanks for asking.

A good summary: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18280103

(i) Read any history of chiropractics. Wikipedia is a good start. Chiropractics was founded by DD Palmer: magnetic healer, well known crank.

(ii) From a chiropractics journal (just so you know it is not only the haters…) http://chiromt.com/content/13/1/17

(iii) Maybe I was a little unsubtle/unfair in my language here. Cochrane review shows chiro is ok for lower back pain, but only when combined with therapies borrowed from other treatment modalities. Provides no evidence chiro works as claimed. http://www2.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab005427.html Other reviews show it does not work for asthma, incontinence, and many other things. Why does this matter? Because many chiropractors claim they can treat many things other than lower back pain.

(iv) There are many documented instances of this. Google will find some. There are many complaints to health boards about this in the UK, NZ, Australia, etc.

(v) There are documented cases of vertebral artery dissection leading to vetebral artery dissection, stroke and death. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20642715 – there are some reasons to be skeptical of the evidence on this (can only accumulate case reports and observations, difficult to study systematically). Still, why take the risk?

I might add some other things… chiropractors have a history of selectively quoting the literature, misunderstanding/misrepresenting the validity of case reports in making inferences about clinical practice, and litigating against scientists who criticise them.

Thanks Wade…

Thanks Wade…

Also, this article is great. It is refreshing to see someone qualified assessing evidence in an evidence based manner in a sporting context. Sadly rare in the sporting world. Brilliant work!

Coach, I am currently qualifying in what you could call a “competing” proffesion with chiropractic.  The reason I mentioned “chiropractic minefield” is responses such as yours.  I do realise and acknowledge your concerns, I also wouldnt spend my own time seing a chiropractor.  However, it is easy to victmise an entire proffesion based upon a century old proffesional conflict and a few rubbish practitioners.
Chiropractic was founded at a time when your average medico used to treat common ailments with heroic doses of morphine, and a carotid artery dissection once in every 3 to 5.6 million manips (i can give you references for that if you like) was a lot safer than medical treatment.  I’m sure many chiropractors have come a long way since then.
I’m sure not every chiro is an irrational quack.  I realise that scrutiny and evidence based medicine is important, but the vitriol that comes from conventional medicine is not very even handed when compared to scrutiny of GPs that prescribe amoxycilin for everything and never conduct thorough physical examinations for example. 

Coach, I am currently qualifying in what you could call a “competing” proffesion with chiropractic.  The reason I mentioned “chiropractic minefield” is responses such as yours.  I do realise and acknowledge your concerns, I also wouldnt spend my own time seing a chiropractor.  However, it is easy to victmise an entire proffesion based upon a century old proffesional conflict and a few rubbish practitioners.
Chiropractic was founded at a time when your average medico used to treat common ailments with heroic doses of morphine, and a carotid artery dissection once in every 3 to 5.6 million manips (i can give you references for that if you like) was a lot safer than medical treatment.  I’m sure many chiropractors have come a long way since then.
I’m sure not every chiro is an irrational quack.  I realise that scrutiny and evidence based medicine is important, but the vitriol that comes from conventional medicine is not very even handed when compared to scrutiny of GPs that prescribe amoxycilin for everything and never conduct thorough physical examinations for example. 

Where did you read the 8pm rule?  I read it somewhere a while back and have incorporated it into an extremely successful (so far), long term weight-loss /weight-management program.  When I’ve gone back through all my books I can’t find it actually stated anywhere though.  I recall their being some supposed science around it but have no idea if it was garbage…  One of the simplest ways it is effective would probably just be that is stops pointless calorie consumption after dinner (chocolate, eating left overs in the late evening, etc.).

Coach,
Good thing you didn’t selectively quote the literature, thereby misrepresenting an entire health care profession.

Here is what I don’t understand and possibly you can clarify it to me. Earlier you wrote that “Ioannidis is great “, and in this  paper he quotes that up to 90% of medical research is flawed. So my question to you, Coach, is why in your response to my ‘joke question’ would you quote medical research which you already have admitted is probably 90% flawed. By your own admission, your references are at best 10% accurate.

My point Wade, is that this is your blog and if want intelligent discussion you may NEED to start to moderate comments as more professionals won’t tolerate the ignorance of such posts. It is one thing to share a differing opinion it is another be disrespectful.

Boom! Dave 1 – Coach 0

Odd Lee that 6 people agreed with Sam. Your on your own on this one mate.

Zinc fights infection within the body & may even help clear up acne to give you a healthy glow. Lack of zinc may lead to poor night vision and wound-healing, a decrease in sense of taste and smell. zinc supplement

Read the Ioannidis papers and get back to me.

I respect this viewpoint and we absolutely should spend time critiquing medicine as well. The use of antibiotics by GPs is an excellent example. There are many others. Saying we would be better off without chiro doesn’t mean we can’t also improve aspects medicine and allied health. And you know what was fascinating? Dave suggests censoring me, then misquotes me, and clearly hasn’t read Ioannidis (possibly neither have you?). You, who are qualifying in a ‘competing profession’, cite the literature. I’d rather see you.

Here is the abstract to Ioannidis most widely known paper, to get you started:

“There is increasing concern that most current published research
findings are false. The probability that a research claim is true may
depend on study power and bias, the number of other studies on the same
question, and, importantly, the ratio of true to no relationships among
the relationships probed in each scientific field. In this framework, a
research finding is less likely to be true when the studies conducted in
a field are smaller; when effect sizes are smaller; when there is a
greater number and lesser preselection of tested relationships; where
there is greater flexibility in designs, definitions, outcomes, and
analytical modes; when there is greater financial and other interest and
prejudice; and when more teams are involved in a scientific field in
chase of statistical significance. Simulations show that for most study
designs and settings, it is more likely for a research claim to be false
than true. Moreover, for many current scientific fields, claimed
research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the
prevailing bias. In this essay, I discuss the implications of these
problems for the conduct and interpretation of research.”

It’s clearly not saying that there are no reliable indicators of study quality and that you can forget about relying on the literature. I’ve read it, I’d read it before I read this post, and I think it is interesting and good work. If a crank relies on it to say that the process of science is necessarily unreliable, that just makes them look foolish (at least to those of us who can read and understand the literature).

I don’t think Ioannidis is saying that ‘science’ is unreliable, but he has clearly showed that ‘medical research’ is unreliable. You do understand that there is a difference between science and medical research, don’t you?

What Ioannidis and others in that field have clearly concluded is that MOST medical research is NOT scientific. That is their conclusion. Therefore quoting medical research  as fact reveals a flawed thought process. You can quote the research as an observation but certainly not as fact. You do understand that difference, don’t you? And at BEST that observation has a 10% chance of being accurate.

So go ahead and quote away, garbage in, garbage out. And those of us that can ACTUALLY interpret the data understand this.

I don’t think Ioannidis is saying that ‘science’ is unreliable, but he has clearly showed that ‘medical research’ is unreliable. You do understand that there is a difference between science and medical research, don’t you?

What Ioannidis and others in that field have clearly concluded is that MOST medical research is NOT scientific. That is their conclusion. Therefore quoting medical research  as fact reveals a flawed thought process. You can quote the research as an observation but certainly not as fact. You do understand that difference, don’t you? And at BEST that observation has a 10% chance of being accurate.

So go ahead and quote away, garbage in, garbage out. And those of us that can ACTUALLY interpret the data understand this.

I don’t think Ioannidis is saying that ‘science’ is unreliable, but he has clearly showed that ‘medical research’ is unreliable. You do understand that there is a difference between science and medical research, don’t you?

What Ioannidis and others in that field have clearly concluded is that MOST medical research is NOT scientific. That is their conclusion. Therefore quoting medical research  as fact reveals a flawed thought process. You can quote the research as an observation but certainly not as fact. You do understand that difference, don’t you? And at BEST that observation has a 10% chance of being accurate.

So go ahead and quote away, garbage in, garbage out. And those of us that can ACTUALLY interpret the data understand this.

You didn’t read the paper. I can tell you didn’t, because none of what you say is what the paper says. It is right here and it is open access: http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

The second sentence refers to flaws in “clinical trials”, “traditional epidemiological studies” and “most modern molecular research”. Ioannidis does not single out medical research exclusively. Much of his methodological work applies equally to all fields of scientific research. It certainly does not say that medical research has, at best, a 10% chance of being accurate. If you read the paper, you’ll see that isn’t what it says. For example, Ioannidis points to large n research in cardiology as an example of an instance where results are more likely to be correct, contrasting it with small n research in molecular biology:

“…other factors being equal, research findings are more
likely true in scientific fields that undertake large studies, such as
randomized controlled trials in cardiology (several thousand subjects
randomized) than in scientific fields with small studies, such as most research of molecular predictors (sample sizes 100-fold smaller)”.

Also, while I know the article in The Atlantic was much easier to understand, the 90% figure is misleading. You may be interested to see that Ioannidis paper only puts the amount of incorrect findings in medical research at around 1/3:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/294/2/218.abstract

If Ioannidis really believed that biomedical research was right only 1/10th of the time, I guess he would be asking himself some searching questions about why he has bothered to publish 474 papers on many different biomedical topics.

Given your interest in Ioannidis, I think this is a fairly interesting post:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/09/the_cranks_pile_on_john_ioannidis_work_o.php

The irony is, when we in the scientific community refer to instances of lying or fraud or deceit by advocates of complementary and alternative therapies (or intelligent design, or global warming denialism or whatever other nonsense is flavor of the month), we are shouted down for being arrogant. Fair enough. I’m just not sure what I should call it when someone says that Ioannidis work applies only to medical research and not science at large. And I can’t work out what I should I call it when someone says that Ioannidis work says that there is a 10% chance that any given piece of research is correct (even if we can assess that research for bias, sample size, analytical methods, prior odds, etc). Fraud, lying and deceit are taken. I’d settle for misunderstanding, but to misunderstand something you have to read it first.

Educate yourself: 474 Ioannidis papers you can read in your spare time.

http://med.stanford.edu/profiles/frdActionServlet?choiceId=showFacPublications&fid=18745&amp;

I had to smile reading your reply. You just don’t get it, do you? I’m sure you’re familiar with that famous 1991 BMJ article that stated that 85% of medical practice is not scientific, because (in 1991) their conclusion that only 1% (one percent) of medical research is scientifically sound. That does not mean that 85% of medical practice is wrong,  just not based on scientific research. I believe this is because medical doctors are more concerned with outcomes. If it works, do it. For example, why else would there be so much off label use of prescription medication?

When I use the term science, I’m referring to the process, the research is the human application of that process.

I don’t really understand your last paragraph. If your claims of lying, fraud and deceit are accurate why is it ‘fair enough’ that you are referred to as being ‘arrogant’? The arrogance comes in when you selectively use research as fact to ‘prove’ a point, research that you know has a high probability of being inaccurate. Then you conveniently omit research that supports the opposing view. That’s arrogance!! That being said, I know there are practitioners that make unfounded claims, some completely ridiculous and physically impossible, some based on fear not clinical experience. That is wrong.

Now, I never suggested that you be censored, just some of your comments. And rightly so! Not only the comment you made which started our discussion but also your last comment in this topic pretty much implying that natural athletes are idiots. I seriously doubt that you would talk this way face to face. And how arrogant of you to send a link to 474 Ionnidis papers, most of us here know how to use Google too.

You speak as if you know, when in fact you can’t KNOW because the information you are basing your assumptions on is flawed. But you already knew that, didn’t you!!

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I realise this discussion was a while ago.. but what to people have against Chiropractors? It’s the same with nearly all healthcare proffessionals, if you end up seeing someone that doesn’t work for you, then there is an immediate stigma attatched to that proffession. I have now been seeing my chiropractor for about a 10 months and he has made more difference and I will go as far to say he has fixed my chronic knee pain. Something that of all the five other physios and sport doctors couldn’t do. I’m not however an elite cyclist, I am an elite rower but cycling and rowing are similar sports and demand the same kind of fitness levels etc. So I think rather than quoting websites or journals that are no longer relevant to 2011 maybe go out and ask the proffessionals their own philosophies on patient care and practices instead of making assumptions. I do cycle as well and what I would like to know in reference to this article is also recovery techniques and the test results found with sports and energy drink.  The AIS is a useful resource as there is always ongoing testing and I myself have been involved in that sort of testing with supplements and know it is accurate. However this is all in reference to me and I’m not everybody, however I do question where people get their sources from.

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