The Lost Art Of The Group Ride

Nice article Peter.

The Figurines are back!

Great article. Sums it all up.

The Figurines are back!

Great article. Sums it all up.

Brilliant – enjoyable, safe and productive group riding, to some degrees, is becoming a lost art or science..

Brilliant – enjoyable, safe and productive group riding, to some degrees, is becoming a lost art or science..

That is a great article….. I ride in a Melburn bunch weekly. I am starting to feel like the older wise guy!!!!! I am only 32, been riding for 8 years. Bloody 40+’s on Pinnerello’s.

That is a great article….. I ride in a Melburn bunch weekly. I am starting to feel like the older wise guy!!!!! I am only 32, been riding for 8 years. Bloody 40+’s on Pinnerello’s.

Mrs CT just walked into the kitchen caused a massive crash. Everyone is okay…

Great article.  Where have the days gone that we “trained to race”, not “race to Train”.  If only beach road riders got back to their small chain rings and put some “hours” in their legs instead of simply being 1-2 hour wonders.. Not sure how we and going to turn back time with all the new corporate riders. 

I love the new enthusiasm for cycling, just don’t like racing without a number on my back!

This is all great but what if your friends ride like you describe!!

The “ To stand up smoothly and not throw your bike back.” one stands out for me. There’s a bunch of that going on in Combine races.

Another reason why blowing the NRR off is the best thing you’ll do train. Hours training solo is probably better for you anyway (notwithstanding the salient points about riding with friends).

I’m moving north to the Byron hinterland and to be honest, I am looking forward to the solitude and the lack of smart #rses grinding past me into the wind as I spin along on my training, going “gee you’re doing it hard in the granny gear” as they rock side to side looking like a drunken lunatic.

Brilliant

Brilliant

“The internet and a power meter do not replace 50,000 miles of
experience, but try telling that to a fit forty year-old, new to
cycling, on a $5000 bike.” YES!

I’ve been turned off the bunch ride scene in the past because it’s macho, snobby, unwelcoming and unhelpful. As a chick on a secondhand bike not wearing a full lycra kit, I didn’t feel welcome, even though I’ve got hundreds of thousands of ks in my legs, 15 years on the bike, and regularly drop MAMILs when I’m out on the road. It’s the reason why I do solo touring instead of attempting road racing and I’m sure I’m not alone. It’s a shame because I think riding with others would make me a better and faster rider, but I find the scene really offputting, for many of the reasons mentioned above. 

“The internet and a power meter do not replace 50,000 miles of
experience, but try telling that to a fit forty year-old, new to
cycling, on a $5000 bike.” YES!

I’ve been turned off the bunch ride scene in the past because it’s macho, snobby, unwelcoming and unhelpful. As a chick on a secondhand bike not wearing a full lycra kit, I didn’t feel welcome, even though I’ve got hundreds of thousands of ks in my legs, 15 years on the bike, and regularly drop MAMILs when I’m out on the road. It’s the reason why I do solo touring instead of attempting road racing and I’m sure I’m not alone. It’s a shame because I think riding with others would make me a better and faster rider, but I find the scene really offputting, for many of the reasons mentioned above. 

I was in my 20s when an older rider (mid-30s) and friend started teaching me roadcraft. He never yelled or tried to humble me, it was just a few words, master-apprentice style. A decade and a half later I find myself emulating Mike’s teaching style and hopefully the art of roadcraft will continue to be passed from one generation to the next.

I was in my 20s when an older rider (mid-30s) and friend started teaching me roadcraft. He never yelled or tried to humble me, it was just a few words, master-apprentice style. A decade and a half later I find myself emulating Mike’s teaching style and hopefully the art of roadcraft will continue to be passed from one generation to the next.

Great article, but more importantly where do you get the figurines from. I have been wanting them for AGES……

Great article, but more importantly where do you get the figurines from. I have been wanting them for AGES……

Amen!

That’s the best article I’ve ever read on how it should be.

Ride to learn, learn to ride!

“This is all great but what if your friends ride like you describe!!”

Teach them.

It’s not just big bunches on Beach Road, either.
I was in a 10-15 size bunch a few months ago, and we passed a pair riding two abreast in Mentone. One guy was about a metre from the gutter, the other was a metre from the outside of the lane. As we passed (in the outside lane) I yelled out “keep it a bit tighter, fellas”. A minute later, one of them was next to me, and proceeded to try to bait me into a fist fight for the next 10 minutes. He was 25 years older than me, and looked to be 15kgs lighter. I declined.
Bizarre.

It’s not just big bunches on Beach Road, either.
I was in a 10-15 size bunch a few months ago, and we passed a pair riding two abreast in Mentone. One guy was about a metre from the gutter, the other was a metre from the outside of the lane. As we passed (in the outside lane) I yelled out “keep it a bit tighter, fellas”. A minute later, one of them was next to me, and proceeded to try to bait me into a fist fight for the next 10 minutes. He was 25 years older than me, and looked to be 15kgs lighter. I declined.
Bizarre.

My biggest reminder to the lack of bunch etiquette out there was bringing my wife out an local club bunch on  their regular morning ride, it reminded me in a quite emotive way of the skill element of bunch riding. I haven’t been riding long, but I have spent a significant portion of my time  on the technical approach and trying to ride ‘right’, and I have passed on this technical bunch riding approach to my better half.
 
This club ride was nominally an ‘easy roll averaging 30′, but instead we sat around 30 on the flats (easy), then punched it up every little rise at 30 (hard for some!). I was well within my comfort zone, but several of the peleton were clearly working HARD.  The ride turned from an easy roll into a panic’d ego session in minutes, with surging pulls and jerky braking all under the semblance of polite rolling turns. Not unexpected with an unfamiliar bunch but it was definitely the sort of behaviour that I would typify as anti-social macho male bunch riding, I certainly wasn’t expecting it on a majority female ‘easy’ ride. My wife was shelled on Col de Ricketts Point, at which point I thought it best to roll home tempo.
 
The key insight is that I didn’t feel that it was my place to say anything, not my bunch, not my place to lay down the ground rules. All the same, I won’t be going back to that bunch any time soon, it is a clear reminder of the distinction that should exist between technical training and fitness training. All the sports I have participated in previously separate these elements out clearly, it is only cycling where the two get crammed together, or the technical dropped entirely!

We need a forum to teach and mentor riders…….
 
When I first started riding I joined a club in the inner northern suburbs of Melbourne and was immediately taken aback by the mateship and willingness of club members to take me under their wing and provide advice and mentorship on most if not all things bike handling, bunch riding, race etiquette etc all things listed in your article. It was a great training ground and platform to being an educated bike rider. They offered plenty of guidance and even the odd grievance should I forget any of the afore mentioned advice. Bunch riding and racing with these guys was as it is supposed to be, safe, fun and productive. I dropped out of cycling for about 5 years and have since returned being back on the bike for about a year and racing with a different club in the south east. When I joined said club they are not to know if I have raced before let alone ever ridden before on my own or in a bunch. But they’re happy to throw you in the deep end, stick a number on and away you go. Lucky for me I have raced before and can handle a bike. But what of the new wave cyclist getting into cycling now, if they are not racing with a club who teaches them how to ride in a bunch, even if they are racing, from my recent experience who teaches them how to ride in a bunch and in general about cycling etiquette. How do we race with guys that don’t know how to roll turns in a handicap?? Should it not be mandatory when joining a club to sit through a generic presentation on cycling etiquette?? I know as well through my previous life in competitive golf, you can’t join a club without learning the rules and etiquette of the game. Can clubs through Cycling Victoria make it mandatory for members to sit through a presentation on cycling etiquette?? Can Bicycle Victoria or Cycling Australia offer free seminars to non competitive cyclists on same, it could be a marketing opportunity as well to get them into memberships with clubs. Any thoughts?
 

We need a forum to teach and mentor riders…….
 
When I first started riding I joined a club in the inner northern suburbs of Melbourne and was immediately taken aback by the mateship and willingness of club members to take me under their wing and provide advice and mentorship on most if not all things bike handling, bunch riding, race etiquette etc all things listed in your article. It was a great training ground and platform to being an educated bike rider. They offered plenty of guidance and even the odd grievance should I forget any of the afore mentioned advice. Bunch riding and racing with these guys was as it is supposed to be, safe, fun and productive. I dropped out of cycling for about 5 years and have since returned being back on the bike for about a year and racing with a different club in the south east. When I joined said club they are not to know if I have raced before let alone ever ridden before on my own or in a bunch. But they’re happy to throw you in the deep end, stick a number on and away you go. Lucky for me I have raced before and can handle a bike. But what of the new wave cyclist getting into cycling now, if they are not racing with a club who teaches them how to ride in a bunch, even if they are racing, from my recent experience who teaches them how to ride in a bunch and in general about cycling etiquette. How do we race with guys that don’t know how to roll turns in a handicap?? Should it not be mandatory when joining a club to sit through a generic presentation on cycling etiquette?? I know as well through my previous life in competitive golf, you can’t join a club without learning the rules and etiquette of the game. Can clubs through Cycling Victoria make it mandatory for members to sit through a presentation on cycling etiquette?? Can Bicycle Victoria or Cycling Australia offer free seminars to non competitive cyclists on same, it could be a marketing opportunity as well to get them into memberships with clubs. Any thoughts?
 

Pretty much sums it up, except that with the 50,000 miles of experience also accumulates 50,000 miles of bad habits in some cases. It is the ability to listen and learn that helps you others become a better riders.

asd

I took my shorts off immediately after a ride once…..the folks at the coffee shop were quite taken aback

Sure it wasn’t Nick (aka @Tinea_Pedis), he has been known to cause accidents.

Sure it wasn’t Nick (aka @Tinea_Pedis), he has been known to cause accidents.

The 40+ riders may have been riding for 20+ years…. 

The 40+ riders may have been riding for 20+ years…. 

Brilliant article.  It reminds me of the days when I first starting riding in the late ’80′s.  The groups back then had their “patron’s of the peloton”.  And yes I did get yelled at, but mostly it was simple quite advice on how to be a better rider.  I was smart enough to listen…just.  I’m so glad I had that experience because without it I’d be no better than the “fit forty year-old, new to cycling, on a $5000 bike”.
The interest in cycling is fantastic, but there are more new comers to the sport than their are old-hands.  And most of these old-hands are younger than the guys (and gals) taking up the sport for the first time.  They are also hugely out numbered.  
Personally I think the entire issue about the “madness that is the modern group ride” is all related to respect.  As a society we do not respect others to the same level as a decade ago.  No-one respects us, so we do not respect them.  This is true for riders in these groups towards other riders as well as towards other road users.
Instead of just accepting that our group rides are dangerous and lack leadership, we all have a responsibility to our sport to doing something to change this.  We have to be seen to be doing the right thing ALWAYS.  We have to be the leaders; the supportive lieutenants; attentive group riders.  We all have a part to play, so let’s start with the one person we have direct influence over: ourselves.

Brilliant article.  It reminds me of the days when I first starting riding in the late ’80′s.  The groups back then had their “patron’s of the peloton”.  And yes I did get yelled at, but mostly it was simple quite advice on how to be a better rider.  I was smart enough to listen…just.  I’m so glad I had that experience because without it I’d be no better than the “fit forty year-old, new to cycling, on a $5000 bike”.
The interest in cycling is fantastic, but there are more new comers to the sport than their are old-hands.  And most of these old-hands are younger than the guys (and gals) taking up the sport for the first time.  They are also hugely out numbered.  
Personally I think the entire issue about the “madness that is the modern group ride” is all related to respect.  As a society we do not respect others to the same level as a decade ago.  No-one respects us, so we do not respect them.  This is true for riders in these groups towards other riders as well as towards other road users.
Instead of just accepting that our group rides are dangerous and lack leadership, we all have a responsibility to our sport to doing something to change this.  We have to be seen to be doing the right thing ALWAYS.  We have to be the leaders; the supportive lieutenants; attentive group riders.  We all have a part to play, so let’s start with the one person we have direct influence over: ourselves.

Great article.

Great article.

Great article.

are you talking about last night? seems this time the car was at fault. apparently he’s ok, not sure about the bike

are you talking about last night? seems this time the car was at fault. apparently he’s ok, not sure about the bike

are you talking about last night? seems this time the car was at fault. apparently he’s ok, not sure about the bike

are you talking about last night? seems this time the car was at fault. apparently he’s ok, not sure about the bike

Can any one tell me (tech challanged) how I can send this post to an email recipient. I intend to send it to all the cycling club preseidents in my city just incase they are unaware of the cycling communities sentiment when it comes to the current state of local bunch rides. Most people do these rides to train for the races they put on.  Teams racing is growing at a rapid pace here in Adelaide and current developments are seeing team capitans (usually the fastest rider, not the most experienced) plan race like strategies for the weekly Saturday hit out. This alarms me as it may put pressure on someone to prioritse their team tactics ahead of riding well on a public road. 
Any one else see this as  a potential problem or am I not giving enough credit to the individual to think for themselves?

Nice, well said! I do worry about people that think that  because they have put in more time or kms on the road, they are automatically a better cyclist. That’s as naiive as believing that better equipment makes you a better cyclist, or that having worse equipment makes you a better cyclist! (as some comments above seem to indicate people believe).
 
“It is the ability to listen and learn that helps you” – Ritch

Nice, well said! I do worry about people that think that  because they have put in more time or kms on the road, they are automatically a better cyclist. That’s as naiive as believing that better equipment makes you a better cyclist, or that having worse equipment makes you a better cyclist! (as some comments above seem to indicate people believe).
 
“It is the ability to listen and learn that helps you” – Ritch

Deja Vu. Marnard Hershon wrote  helpful articles like that above 20+ years ago in Winning magazine.  The more things change…….

Hey dude… that could be me you are dissing! ;-) [I been riding for 28 years... and what is wrong with a Pinarello when you've done your time? :-)]

I agree with these sentiments too Andy. Being outnumbered is a serious drawback… one good reason to avoid monster group rides. But things are changing in the way older people are treated by the younger ones. I sound like an “old codger” for it, but really, there is not much respect *in general* for people who have been around the traps, let alone when a complete stranger rolls up alongside a youngster and asks them (even nicely) to please stop surging/running red lights/overlapping wheels etc. You’re more likely to get a finger and told to f-off than receive an apology.

One way to make it work is to stick to small-group rides and if people want to sit on, they must tow the line or they’ll be informed of their misdemeanor, then if they repeat it, asked nicely to leave. *Hopefully* although they may try to save face at the time, next time they might not be quite so willing to repeat their error.

My tips:

Be nice but firm.
Explain an error gently and quietly (don’t scream or verbally abuse people. Don’t swear!).
Lead by example (I agree with you)
Smile and ride away from an argument on the road or drop back and let aggressive riders go.
Ride at the front yourself when you can, in a smaller gear than everybody else, but at the appropriate speed ;-)

Trying copy and pasting the URL (web address at the top of your browser) into an email.  This should work

SKCC runs a couple of different women group rides throughout the week, good for picking up advice. Maybe this is not for you but Warren at BikeNow runs skills sessions called ‘Cogs Girls’, he teaches the skills and practicalities of bunch riding for novices but also for the long time rider, its also available through SKCC. It’s a good social outing and you learn key skills along the way, my partner started here, met a lot of friends and loved it.
http://www.bikenow.com.au/where-to-ride/cogs-girls-group/

Worked. Cheers BG.

Whats with all this Beach-Road-Cyclist-bagging?

A lot of Pros use this route during their off season and I and many thousands ride it each week (including CT!)

Remember the old Bathurst days when we had Toyota Corolla’s battling it out with V8′s in the one race?  It was mayhem and not surprisingly it was fixed up by just being the one class of car in the race.  The speed differential was the killing factor and as such risks where taken to compete even though the Corolla wasn’t actually racing the V8.  I see this on beach road of a Saturday, to many people in races that each other don’t know anything about. (I can smash people on the bike when they aren’t aware of it too)…  Anyway, my point is that speed difference within groups for me is a big problem…. Rule of thumb should be; if you can’t take your turn at the front roll back to another group of similar capabilities…  I’m not being elitist, just common sense I hope…

Perhaps not useful answer, but they were available from merchandising stands during the Tour de France. Pack of three rider for 5 Euros.   I picked some up for the kids, who (suprisingly) adore them.   

i learnt to ride in a bunch when i started racing with CCCC. the old timers were kind enough to give me advice, although i struggled to understand why i should ease off the pace when rotating to the front – it’s a race, i’m not trying to make it easy for you! there was that club guy with the crooked ankle in C grade, i forget his name, out at Dunlop Rd who would yell at you when you got it wrong. happy days.

i learnt to ride in a bunch when i started racing with CCCC. the old timers were kind enough to give me advice, although i struggled to understand why i should ease off the pace when rotating to the front – it’s a race, i’m not trying to make it easy for you! there was that club guy with the crooked ankle in C grade, i forget his name, out at Dunlop Rd who would yell at you when you got it wrong. happy days.

on another note, i did the 50 km ATB ride with my partner last year. if you want to see bad ‘bunch’ riding, it’s got it all.

on another note, i did the 50 km ATB ride with my partner last year. if you want to see bad ‘bunch’ riding, it’s got it all.

I think you can get similar ones from Northside Wheelers in Greville St

I think you can get similar ones from Northside Wheelers in Greville St

This article could not possibly be written better. My sentiments are echoed so loudly I have heart palpitations. If I could get a hold of the CA mailing list I would make it necessary reading for all cyclists, and am now issuing this article with every road bike I sell. Well done and thank you!

This article could not possibly be written better. My sentiments are echoed so loudly I have heart palpitations. If I could get a hold of the CA mailing list I would make it necessary reading for all cyclists, and am now issuing this article with every road bike I sell. Well done and thank you!

I’d also add that the fields at the SKCC women’s crits on Sunday mornings have really grown in size over the past few years, so you don’t have to race with the blokes any more.

I’d also add that the fields at the SKCC women’s crits on Sunday mornings have really grown in size over the past few years, so you don’t have to race with the blokes any more.

Le Knicks at Black Rock had some a while ago, I bought some for my son’s birthday cake about 2 years ago not sure if they still have them.

Nothing wrong with having one if you havn’t done your time either. 

It’s not what you need, it’s want you want.

Just a matter of getting your priorities wrong…

I speak as a cyclist and a medical professional. We participate in a dangerous sport. When on the bike, there a multiple factors we have no control over – the weather and conduct of motorists would be the predominant ones. But the one thing we undisputedly can control is our own behaviour. Toward other road users, and even more importantly, toward each other.

The call for a patron of the peleton to be the arbeiter of positive cycling behaviour is flawed. It is logistically impossible due to the size of bunches, but also because it represents an abrogation of responsibility by the cycling community at large. In the same way as driving a motor vehicle carries a duty of care to other road users, riding a bike in a bunch is no different. Moderating ones own behaviour, each and every time we clip in is what is required.

Every weekend I could walk you through the emergency department at the hospital where I work and at times, upwards of 20% of the beds would be occupied by individuals in lycra. Thankfully, most are suffering bruised egos. Unfortunately, The consequences are far more serious for others.

This scenario reminds me of the story of four people named everybody, somebody, anybody and nobody. There was an important job to be done and everybody was sure that somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it but nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that because it was everybody’s job. Everybody thought anybody could do it but nobody realised that everybody wouldn’t do it. It ended up that everybody blamed somebody when nobody did what anybody could have done.

Ride safe. Look out for each other.

There are perfectly good opportunities to race in Melbourne, the Northern Combine winter road racing calendar is fantastic, I don’t really understand people wanting to race on Beach road… get out there on the weekends and save the racing for true competitive rides. I’ve never done the 6am bunch rides on Beach road, way too early for me! And I live in Hampton, practically on the beach! Although, after reading all this I am now intrigued, I’ve got to see what this Hell Ride is all about! 

I’m relatively new to this only got into cycling as running was bad for my knees – I did get a second hand bike and was lucky enough to be befriended by a group who taught me the rules / guidelines stated above but what’s the “Yellow line rule” ?

Somehow you need to get the Beach road riders to read this – most people aren’t d!ckheads they probably just don’t understand.

cheers
Jim

ps – CT – I will buy Rapha in appreciation of this site

I’m relatively new to this only got into cycling as running was bad for my knees – I did get a second hand bike and was lucky enough to be befriended by a group who taught me the rules / guidelines stated above but what’s the “Yellow line rule” ?

Somehow you need to get the Beach road riders to read this – most people aren’t d!ckheads they probably just don’t understand.

cheers
Jim

ps – CT – I will buy Rapha in appreciation of this site

It’s a yellow line in some countries, over here our road markings are mostly white paint.
Basically, don’t move out of your lane.

thing is the sport of cycling is no longer the domain of pro riders, cycling is a sport everyone can enjoy – its been democratized, so what if they don’t conform or look the part – or ride in a perfect anal manner; point is they’re out there getting healthy and that can only be a good thing.

Take Beach Rd for example, this is where many new riders begin … live with it, there will be new riders that just don’t get it, so what, stop riding along being hypercritical and get on with enjoying your ride.  The best method of teaching is for experienced riders to be role models, be positive and supportive. 

And BTW, participating/training for Around the Bay is probably where most new riders (in melb) learn their craft these days.

thing is the sport of cycling is no longer the domain of pro riders, cycling is a sport everyone can enjoy – its been democratized, so what if they don’t conform or look the part – or ride in a perfect anal manner; point is they’re out there getting healthy and that can only be a good thing.

Take Beach Rd for example, this is where many new riders begin … live with it, there will be new riders that just don’t get it, so what, stop riding along being hypercritical and get on with enjoying your ride.  The best method of teaching is for experienced riders to be role models, be positive and supportive. 

And BTW, participating/training for Around the Bay is probably where most new riders (in melb) learn their craft these days.

Great article. A whole lotta “riders” would be better ambassadors of the sport if they adhered to these simple rules.

Not sure … but I bet there’s plenty of Beach Road sand-baggers  ;)

Sensational article. I am a triathlete. I am a cyclist. I was schooled in the appropriate way to behave in a group by The Bayriders quite a few years ago when poor behaviour resulted in one being un-invited to the next ride, and one earned ones stripes before bringing along a mate (Alf) to a group ride. How times have changed. People drop into rolls uninvited and then compromise the safety of the group as a result of their poor skills. You sat off the back when a group unknown to yourself rolled past and then asked if it was ok to get involved in the roll.

It should be easier now than ever to identify a group given the proliferation of apparel manufacturers scampering to kit us all up in various colours and designs.  If you see and group and you are clearly not adorned in the same kit, show some respect and consideration for them, their survival and safety.  If you are scared to face the wind and want a soft ride, sit off the back and appreciate the tow (how many wheel suckers actually acknowledge the group and the tow when they turn off?)

I appreciate that the number of cyclists has grown significantly but in the same way that the general population hasn’t lost the concept of basic manners as the worlds population has exploded, we cyclists shouldn’t accept bad behaviour just because there are more cyclists on the road.

Nie article Peter, but back off on the triathlete calls! I reckon I ride alright, despite being a triple discipline athlete. 500km a week in and out of bunches tends to hone the skills as much as the next cyclist.

I think I especially agree with the line, ‘nobody wants to be told what to do’ and would add…especially when they’re out on the road for fun. If everyone sticks left and uses hand signals, there’s few problems to address on most of my bunch rides. Aside from the odd muppet who needs a reminder who their Jim Henson is.

cheers

That why God gave you a mouth, talk to them either in the bunch or after the ride. (sorry to all the atheists)

Once a year riders, watch out! I don’t go out before 9am when it is on to miss the mess!

there’s a wonderful collection of them here http://shop.ebay.com.au/ericq49/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562

Join a club, wear the colours and race when you’ve got a number on and covered by insurance. You should send your recalcitrant Mexicans to us to do a few club/group rides along Sydneys’ eastern distributor. Sorts the bunch pretty quick – its discipline or death!

I hear SKCC are also launching a Women’s C grade for the coming crit season

Northside Wheelers!  http://www.northsidewheelers.com/

Northside Wheelers!  http://www.northsidewheelers.com/

Nobody has anything against new riders, it’s about those who are new to cycling, bunch or otherwise, doing a dis-service to the whole community by transgressing an etiquette of shared respect to other road users (be they cyclists or otherwise) and acting aggressively and refusing to modulate their behaviour when approached by a more experienced experienced cyclist.

Nobody has anything against new riders, it’s about those who are new to cycling, bunch or otherwise, doing a dis-service to the whole community by transgressing an etiquette of shared respect to other road users (be they cyclists or otherwise) and acting aggressively and refusing to modulate their behaviour when approached by a more experienced experienced cyclist.

Nice one Peter, well put.

My pet hate isn’t here though – rider gets overtaken by the bunch, feels somehow slighted or challenged, and speeds up, slotting in about halfway down the bunch and causing mayhem behind…Standard procedure for the commuter cyclist on Beach Road though unfortunately. Arrghhh

Come on, it’s only light hearted ribbing.

If I really wanted to have a go at triathletes for being generally rubbish bike handlers I’d post this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjqEogQtVQ0

I’ve occasionally been a culprit of the above described poor behavior- i.e. being fit and strong but not having great bike skills on account of being  new to the sport, however the whole “chastise harshly” doesn’t help, dangerous riding aside…
 
I’m pretty eager to learn, and helpful friendly advice is very much appreciated, and always heeded. Copping abuse from some angry c*nt is usually met with a similar veined response.
 
I’m  now riding with a pretty small group who fortunately have some experienced riders who are happy to pass on their knowlege sensai-style, and as a group we’re all trying to improve our bunch riding.
 
PS. Apologies to anyone who’s peleton I’ve messed around. Sorry for that.

Here’s an idea – for the next Rapha video, do “The Lost Art of the Group Ride”.  Find some exotic location for said group ride, dress your participants in head-to-toe Rapha gear, hire some top-notch cinematographers etc. etc. etc., but explain how to ride in a group safely and enjoyably.  Maybe you can even have a “villain” dressed in Assos to demonstrate the “don’ts”…

Done well, it’d probably get circulated even more widely than the typical Rapha promo video, so you’d be promoting your employer’s products just as effectively, and doing a community service at the same time.

If it’s not the sort of thing Rapha could do, it *is* the sort of thing that (with slightly less elaborate production values) could be done by any number of organizations on a fairly modest budget. 

Go to the hills on them days!

Heres a nice youtube vid all half wheelers and aerobar bunch riders should take a look at…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaQJB_bWA4c&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Seems to be a lot of comments directing the blame to subsets of cycling, 40+ on $40k bikes, new riders, commuters, triathletes this seems to miss one of Peter’s key points “It is a club, and we should want to expand and improve our membership.”.  While the attitude is, it’s not me, it’s the other bloke, things won’t change.

no! leave my hills alone and stay on beach road; I’m very happy up here with my banjo

“The internet and a power meter do not replace 50,000 miles of experience” I have seen this quote many times before and every time I find my self nodding in agreement,
But then my hate of STRAVA culture was vented last week so a lot will know that.

He does need to add to the rules of what we learn:

Rubbing shoulders is what just happens, you will not crash UNLESS you panic

Quality work JC.

I try to use every opportunity to practice my riding skills, especially when off the bike.

I take small steps all day walking round the office, pretending I am in the small ring. I wear humble shoes, clearly used.

If I am standing in a queue at the bus stop or the bank, I try to form an echelon. When I am walking down a busy city street, I step in front of people to form a pace line, conscious of taking my pull without surging.

I point out road hazards with clear signals to people walking behind me, calling “lights up!” or “stopping!” when I walk up to a street corner. I assume the role of ride captain in the lift, organizing the lift peloton to rotate through at each floor.

I think people appreciate it and respect me, because they always seem to give me lots of room around the streets and office.

Racing the blokes is easier than racing the chicks… at least that’s what I find! It’s great when there are women’s races, but sometimes there’s so much breadth in speed, strength and skill that there aren’t enough grades to suit all the women entered.

Also, there are plenty of clubs around, just because you’re a female you do NOT have to join SKCC. I think it’s a pity to not see more women in other club kits. Choose a club that suits YOU, each club has it’s own personality.

A pump in his spokes would have ended that discussion quickly.

Ahhh, WINNING Magazine, I had a subscription for over 5 years. Cables out the top of brake levers era… Hershon wrote some great articles.
 

Print this out and hand it out to all riders, and then the new ones that come on the rides later.  If they say: “Whatever mate” tell them to GTFOH.

Totally agree with the sentiment; “Cycling is not a never ending ladder, each step aspiring upwards,
casting aspersions down. It is a club, and we should want to expand and
improve our membership.”

This 50,000 miles thing is getting a lot of air time, I gotta say that 50,000 miles IS NOT a substitute for actually wanting to improve and gain the skills. I’m certain there are many hardened Audax riders out there who have done more kms than I ever will, but still have no idea how to roll a turn or echelon nicely.

This 50,000 miles thing is getting a lot of air time, I gotta say that 50,000 miles IS NOT a substitute for actually wanting to improve and gain the skills. I’m certain there are many hardened Audax riders out there who have done more kms than I ever will, but still have no idea how to roll a turn or echelon nicely.

I object to the triathlete reference – except it’s spot on dammit……..

I object to the triathlete reference – except it’s spot on dammit……..

A CO2 canister probably wouldn’t work as well :-)

….and my pet hate is when your stopped at lights and a bunch pulls along side, the lights go green and you accelerate back to your speed prior to stopping only to cop abuse from the guys ‘sitting on’ that your in the middle of their shop ride…..one of the reasons I rarely ride Route 33 any more although once you get past Mordialloc things improve ; )

….and my pet hate is when your stopped at lights and a bunch pulls along side, the lights go green and you accelerate back to your speed prior to stopping only to cop abuse from the guys ‘sitting on’ that your in the middle of their shop ride…..one of the reasons I rarely ride Route 33 any more although once you get past Mordialloc things improve ; )

….and my pet hate is when your stopped at lights and a bunch pulls along side, the lights go green and you accelerate back to your speed prior to stopping only to cop abuse from the guys ‘sitting on’ that your in the middle of their shop ride…..one of the reasons I rarely ride Route 33 any more although once you get past Mordialloc things improve ; )

….and my pet hate is when your stopped at lights and a bunch pulls along side, the lights go green and you accelerate back to your speed prior to stopping only to cop abuse from the guys ‘sitting on’ that your in the middle of their shop ride…..one of the reasons I rarely ride Route 33 any more although once you get past Mordialloc things improve ; )

Good point mate I experience this, you’re then faced with the choice to 1. continue and position yourself and hold your line safely, letting the bunch pass or wheel suck you; 2. Move to the side and let the bunch slowly pass only to give you the choice up the road – ‘should I pass, sit on, or drop back?’ 3. merge with the bunch safely and either ask and ride with them or drop off up the road.

The best trick I’ve learnt is to read the bunch and situation, be humble and ride safely.

Going out later is a good trick!

Good point mate I experience this, you’re then faced with the choice to 1. continue and position yourself and hold your line safely, letting the bunch pass or wheel suck you; 2. Move to the side and let the bunch slowly pass only to give you the choice up the road – ‘should I pass, sit on, or drop back?’ 3. merge with the bunch safely and either ask and ride with them or drop off up the road.

The best trick I’ve learnt is to read the bunch and situation, be humble and ride safely.

Going out later is a good trick!

It’s not just at lights either…

… Go out for a simple solo ride and it can turn into a bunch ride with wheel suckers on your a$$. I was out for a solo ride last weekend, headwind, rode a group of 5 or 6 back who wheel sucked me from Mordy to Hampton.  Not that it mattered, but then one of them said to me at the lights as he turned off “thanks mate, I wanted to do a turn but I couldn’t get around”.  Huh?  I’m out for my own ride now I’ve got you on my a$$! Then there was the guy who wheel rubbed me …. oooh sigh

Same thing when I’m pacing my GF up and down Beach Rd, everyone thinks its an invitation to sit on.  She’s slower on the hills naturally so I slow, before we know it they’ve gone around her and chopped her wheel to grab mine!  WTF?  Feels like I’m forever waving people through or off to not ride on our wheels.

Again, going out later is a good trick!

Fair call, but the concept about those who actually do it (esp Racing, and especially handicaps where you get a really quick education) should be about quality, where guys who focus only on the “numbers game” tend to be a little… er… misguided

Personally my biggest fear for this week end’s AGF is the muppets, thankfully we are in tier 1, and we will be sticking together in kit, but for all I know there could be 1000 people in that Group!

Fair call, but the concept about those who actually do it (esp Racing, and especially handicaps where you get a really quick education) should be about quality, where guys who focus only on the “numbers game” tend to be a little… er… misguided

Personally my biggest fear for this week end’s AGF is the muppets, thankfully we are in tier 1, and we will be sticking together in kit, but for all I know there could be 1000 people in that Group!

Some people just won’t listen.

Some people just won’t listen.

Cycling, like almost all other sports = cliquey (snowboarding, skiing, surfing, you name it)

Speaking of which we havnt had a post from Mrs CT for a while….

Speaking of which we havnt had a post from Mrs CT for a while….

Speaking of which we havnt had a post from Mrs CT for a while….

Speaking of which we havnt had a post from Mrs CT for a while….

The original article here was about the nrr and the behavior in it. Newbie riders don’t go to and can’t keep up with the nrr or hell ride. New riders aren’t the issue. Over confident, arrogant and obnoxious riders are, no matter how long they have been on the bike.

The original article here was about the nrr and the behavior in it. Newbie riders don’t go to and can’t keep up with the nrr or hell ride. New riders aren’t the issue. Over confident, arrogant and obnoxious riders are, no matter how long they have been on the bike.

Ahh…everything was better in the good old days!

Wasn’t it?!

Ahh…everything was better in the good old days!

Wasn’t it?!

Ahh…everything was better in the good old days!

Wasn’t it?!

pmark1bike, why did your god give an inferior mouth to all those people who were born without the ability to speak? Just for kicks?

pmark1bike, why did your god give an inferior mouth to all those people who were born without the ability to speak? Just for kicks?

pmark1bike, why did your god give an inferior mouth to all those people who were born without the ability to speak? Just for kicks?

Hard to disagree with any of that, though as one of the other commentators has noted, it’s almost impossible to enforce any of this outside of a strictly controlled and highly exclusive and desirable club.

I live in London which has seen an exponential increase in the numbers of people riding, particularly since the bombings in 2007. While on the whole this is fantastic, the standard of riding is truly appalling. I think many people who head out on group rides these days have picked up all their licks on the “Tour de Commute” Having grown up in Melbourne

The other major factor is I think innate. A peloton resembles to a shoal of fish. Not something that comes naturally to most people, me included. I’ll hold my hand up. I would benefit from that kind of instruction.

Hard to disagree with any of that, though as one of the other commentators has noted, it’s almost impossible to enforce any of this outside of a strictly controlled and highly exclusive and desirable club.

I live in London which has seen an exponential increase in the numbers of people riding, particularly since the bombings in 2007. While on the whole this is fantastic, the standard of riding is truly appalling. I think many people who head out on group rides these days have picked up all their licks on the “Tour de Commute” Having grown up in Melbourne

The other major factor is I think innate. A peloton resembles to a shoal of fish. Not something that comes naturally to most people, me included. I’ll hold my hand up. I would benefit from that kind of instruction.

I meant also to say that having grown up in Melbourne I can’t imagine that it’s any different, but with added Aussie road rage too.

I knew I would be in trouble for using the “G” word! :-)

Funny… to me the article is talking mainly about the need for the experienced riders to pass their knowledge down the line to the newbies with fewer skills, with the newbies of course sharing responsibility and wanting to respect and learn. But most of the comments are from the experienced riders ragging on the newbies. Missed the point much?

happy to say that this article has generated plenty of chat and plenty of people willing to buy-in and start being part of the solution rather than part of the problem on my club’s regular rides… long may it continue!

“- To start with a humble bike, probably used.”
Uh, no. 

And there’s no way a newbie will ever find a peloton mentor to impart this “wisdom” before she or he already has a bike, whether it’s a cheap piece of junk or top of the line.

I found this doc to be pretty good. Gives you all the subtleties you may not pick up from the bunch.
Pretty comprehensive.
http://www.tourdecure.com.au/uploads/bunchriding.pdf

I found this doc to be pretty good. Gives you all the subtleties you may not pick up from the bunch.
Pretty comprehensive.
http://www.tourdecure.com.au/uploads/bunchriding.pdf

I found this doc to be pretty good. Gives you all the subtleties you may not pick up from the bunch.
Pretty comprehensive.
http://www.tourdecure.com.au/uploads/bunchriding.pdf

Thanks!

I was very young (maybe 10 years old) and riding by myself amongst thousands of others when the same things were taught to me.  fast forward 24 years and I find that it is difficult to get a group that I feel safe around, I don’t know if I have grown paranoid of others lack of experience, or just poor technique as described by the author. . . so at the end of the day, I find that I have sort of become the “soul surfer” of biking. . . avoiding competitions, group rides, and anything involving registrations in favor of solitude on the open road.

I was very young (maybe 10 years old) and riding by myself amongst thousands of others when the same things were taught to me.  fast forward 24 years and I find that it is difficult to get a group that I feel safe around, I don’t know if I have grown paranoid of others lack of experience, or just poor technique as described by the author. . . so at the end of the day, I find that I have sort of become the “soul surfer” of biking. . . avoiding competitions, group rides, and anything involving registrations in favor of solitude on the open road.

Very well written article and that’s how it should be. It was when I started cycling in 83, but unfortunately cycling has become bigger than itself and you will always have guys that think they know it all from what they read on the internet or in a book. The sport has changed and sadly not everyone wants to be taught the art of cycling, especially in a bunches like the NRR’s. Clubs, shops, small private teams or whatever need to get more involved in bunch riding to change the way group rides are held, otherwise the outcome may not be good.

Hi there,

I liked your article a lot and came to wonder what the right amount of pull would be considered appropriate? Is it measured in meters or seconds or just how strong you feel on the bike that day?