Electronic shifting is here—now what?

Nup. If I want automatic shifting, I’ll drive a car. I ride a bike for the pleasure and enjoyment I get from setting the bike up and making everything work properly. Fully automatic gear shifting> Not for me!

Ooops, FIRST?????

Haha, yes, FIRST. While all you young bucks, (and Buck-ettes) are out there pedalling you’re prowess, the old Canetoad has snuck in and stole first place.
 Hmmm been a while since that’s happened.

Haha, yes, FIRST. While all you young bucks, (and Buck-ettes) are out there pedalling you’re prowess, the old Canetoad has snuck in and stole first place.
 Hmmm been a while since that’s happened.

BTW great post Matt, keep up the good work.

Glad we dont have Apple v Samsung here

its funny, the gear geek in me wishes I had Di2 on my bike, but I am glad that I don’t.

I am not sure that I am entirely comfortable with this fundamental shift in bicycle design.  Sure, it may provide better performance but my love of the bicycle stems from the fact that it does not have a any form of motorisation (is that a word?).

Not sure if I am just clinging to the past or staying true to a bicycles roots….

Electronic shifting technology kinda reminds me of Apple technology. Never buy the first, or even second, iteration of it. I’ll be waiting until I get a new bike before making that kind of leap and hopefully by the time I do, all the bugs will be worked out.

Electronic shifting technology kinda reminds me of Apple technology. Never buy the first, or even second, iteration of it. I’ll be waiting until I get a new bike before making that kind of leap and hopefully by the time I do, all the bugs will be worked out.

Here we go again with the witty comments. I don’t like electronic shifting, I don’t like men with hairy legs, I don’t like cyclists with team jerseys, blah blah blah. Get used to it.

Here we go again with the witty comments. I don’t like electronic shifting, I don’t like men with hairy legs, I don’t like cyclists with team jerseys, blah blah blah. Get used to it.

Are there any major bugs though?
Only thing I’d really want to see with Di2 is the ability to ‘press and hold’ the shift button for multiple shifts similar to what Campagnolo ‘mechanical’ does. Probably childsplay to Fairwheels guru but should really be an option straight from Shimano.

Shimano drop an 11spd and Road Disc Brake bomb and we’re talking about something from 2009? Cutting edge.

Would definitely get this on my bike if I had the coin. Can’t understand the naysayers as this is clearly one of the biggest leaps in bicycle drivetrains since indexed (click click) gears and external bottom brackets. 

I love that shimano also focus on innovations that make a real difference to performance and not silly things to claim bragging rights like 11 gears.

Any chance they could pick anything other than the most butt-ugly bikes around?

You could have gears that make you breakfast afterwards as well but you’re still riding the worst looking frame since the Soft ride…

I’ve used di2 for 6 months. Never missed a shift….can’t go back, won’t go back

………and to those who use the IT analogy of  ”never buy the first incarnation” this does not apply to di2…..it works, and keeps working, and does not deteriorate, period

………and to those who use the IT analogy of  ”never buy the first incarnation” this does not apply to di2…..it works, and keeps working, and does not deteriorate, period

………and to those who use the IT analogy of  ”never buy the first incarnation” this does not apply to di2…..it works, and keeps working, and does not deteriorate, period

what i want to know is if you can use a radio transmitter or other device to interfere with the system. roll on Di2-gate :)

at the TdF

at the TdF

Perhaps “bug” is the wrong word. For example, waiting to buy an iPod got me one with more functions and better ‘ease of use’.  I think electronic shifting has a ways to go, as you pointed out with the ‘press and hold’. Also, I’d rather have something that’s integrated into the bike, rather than attached to it with cable ties. I think that’d be worth waiting for.

Perhaps “bug” is the wrong word. For example, waiting to buy an iPod got me one with more functions and better ‘ease of use’.  I think electronic shifting has a ways to go, as you pointed out with the ‘press and hold’. Also, I’d rather have something that’s integrated into the bike, rather than attached to it with cable ties. I think that’d be worth waiting for.

Perhaps “bug” is the wrong word. For example, waiting to buy an iPod got me one with more functions and better ‘ease of use’.  I think electronic shifting has a ways to go, as you pointed out with the ‘press and hold’. Also, I’d rather have something that’s integrated into the bike, rather than attached to it with cable ties. I think that’d be worth waiting for.

JC, for everyone person like you whose had a great experience of Di2 (which is awesome by the way), I’m willing to bet there’s some poor bugger who’s had an absolute nightmare of a time. It’s the nature of anything electronic.

JC, for everyone person like you whose had a great experience of Di2 (which is awesome by the way), I’m willing to bet there’s some poor bugger who’s had an absolute nightmare of a time. It’s the nature of anything electronic.

JC, for everyone person like you whose had a great experience of Di2 (which is awesome by the way), I’m willing to bet there’s some poor bugger who’s had an absolute nightmare of a time. It’s the nature of anything electronic.

Why embrace something that provides no obvious benefit?

Electronic shifting for bicycles = over-engineering. 

Dead battery = ball ache.

….and so has my standard DA shifting for 2 years, NO adjustment, and more importantly NO batteries required….and with anything electronic it will deteriorate over time.

by ball ache i assume you mean after you call your partner to pick you up.

by ball ache i assume you mean after you call your partner to pick you up.

Lauren, if there were reports of widespread problems with Di2 they’d have circulated the internets by now.

The one well-publicized problem (partly because it affected Mick Rogers)  was that early versions were incompatible with big inner rings (mainly for TT’ing) but that’s about it.

Electronic shifting does not push the boundaries of servo motor design, nor embedded software design.  Fundamentally, there’s no reason this couldn’t have been done 15 years ago (indeed, Mavic did IIRC).  And Shimano took plenty of time to get the bugs out of the system.  It’s not like the world of smartphones, where they are in a constant struggle to leapfrog competitors with new functionality, and if it means the phone ships buggy, that’s a price worth paying. 

The only reason to hold off, in my view, is price.

Lauren, if there were reports of widespread problems with Di2 they’d have circulated the internets by now.

The one well-publicized problem (partly because it affected Mick Rogers)  was that early versions were incompatible with big inner rings (mainly for TT’ing) but that’s about it.

Electronic shifting does not push the boundaries of servo motor design, nor embedded software design.  Fundamentally, there’s no reason this couldn’t have been done 15 years ago (indeed, Mavic did IIRC).  And Shimano took plenty of time to get the bugs out of the system.  It’s not like the world of smartphones, where they are in a constant struggle to leapfrog competitors with new functionality, and if it means the phone ships buggy, that’s a price worth paying. 

The only reason to hold off, in my view, is price.

Anything powerful enough to take out a Di2 transmitter would probably cripple the camera motos and risk a nasty accident.

Anything powerful enough to take out a Di2 transmitter would probably cripple the camera motos and risk a nasty accident.

Son, you might not be old enough to have seen Mavics outing in the early 90′s with their electronic shifters. This is an evolution, not revolution. It is exciting- please don’t get me wrong, but i’m waiting for trouser twitching changes in the industry to really get tongues wagging.

Son, you might not be old enough to have seen Mavics outing in the early 90′s with their electronic shifters. This is an evolution, not revolution. It is exciting- please don’t get me wrong, but i’m waiting for trouser twitching changes in the industry to really get tongues wagging.

Son, you might not be old enough to have seen Mavics outing in the early 90′s with their electronic shifters. This is an evolution, not revolution. It is exciting- please don’t get me wrong, but i’m waiting for trouser twitching changes in the industry to really get tongues wagging.

ditto here… had it on my TT since Sept 2009 and Roadie Mar 2010. I keep a cable groupset in the toolbox just in case, but never needed it – it has been through crashes and on used daily for training… it just keeps going and going.

ditto here… had it on my TT since Sept 2009 and Roadie Mar 2010. I keep a cable groupset in the toolbox just in case, but never needed it – it has been through crashes and on used daily for training… it just keeps going and going.

ditto here… had it on my TT since Sept 2009 and Roadie Mar 2010. I keep a cable groupset in the toolbox just in case, but never needed it – it has been through crashes and on used daily for training… it just keeps going and going.

Ive got ball ache- but my battery is still fine. I’m losing it!

Forget Electronic shifting, this is the future of cycling! via @tobyshingleton http://youtu.be/SqBw7XapJKk

Forget Electronic shifting, this is the future of cycling! via @tobyshingleton http://youtu.be/SqBw7XapJKk

Thanks Matt for the write up, its great to see there are some innovators out there willing to seek improvements on new technologies outside the manufacturers.  Obviously with digital there are still issues like cables, batteries etc., whilst frame manufacturers are on board in hiding these components. One thing that does worry me is the integrity of the frame, stem, etc. once a hole is placed to store the components ie: battery in seat tube, stem, etc. Accessibility to these components is another issue.

Thanks Matt for the write up, its great to see there are some innovators out there willing to seek improvements on new technologies outside the manufacturers.  Obviously with digital there are still issues like cables, batteries etc., whilst frame manufacturers are on board in hiding these components. One thing that does worry me is the integrity of the frame, stem, etc. once a hole is placed to store the components ie: battery in seat tube, stem, etc. Accessibility to these components is another issue.

if you look at one of those stress analysis plots, you can see that stress magnitude varies significantly across different parts of a frame. i would say that as long as the hole is formed in a low-stress area and made/finished in a way that doesn’t encourage cracks to form it should be right.

To answer your question Matt: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/shimano-dura-ace-di2-11-speed-and-disc-brakes-for-2013
You also might want to check out a couple of Colnago C59′s that have had the full integration treatment for quite a while. Battery in the seatpost and brain in the stem/steerer – very cool and available as a production bike.
Ride Mag ran a quarter page on it in the current edition with pics (p234)

To answer your question Matt: http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/shimano-dura-ace-di2-11-speed-and-disc-brakes-for-2013
You also might want to check out a couple of Colnago C59′s that have had the full integration treatment for quite a while. Battery in the seatpost and brain in the stem/steerer – very cool and available as a production bike.
Ride Mag ran a quarter page on it in the current edition with pics (p234)

Right on.

I will only upgrade when I can get properly integrated hydraulic discs on a roadie. Coming of a hybrid that had them, the brakes on my roadie feel horrid to say the least.

Right on.

I will only upgrade when I can get properly integrated hydraulic discs on a roadie. Coming of a hybrid that had them, the brakes on my roadie feel horrid to say the least.

Right on.

I will only upgrade when I can get properly integrated hydraulic discs on a roadie. Coming of a hybrid that had them, the brakes on my roadie feel horrid to say the least.

Yep and I invented the ipad but couldn’t quite make it stick. 

You probably are right and I’m being a bit of a smartarse but history is written by those who succeed, and Shimano have succeeded where Mavic couldn’t/didn’t.

Yep and I invented the ipad but couldn’t quite make it stick. 

You probably are right and I’m being a bit of a smartarse but history is written by those who succeed, and Shimano have succeeded where Mavic couldn’t/didn’t.

Love it! Bring on Go-Go-Gadget lead-out man!

Love it! Bring on Go-Go-Gadget lead-out man!

I can only assume you haven’t ridden Di2 Steve. The benefit is frighteningly clear once you ride it. The battery issue, or more correctly non-issue, has already been explained many times in many places. A charge will last for an extremely long time (approx 1600km) and it’s LED will notify you along way before that when you might consider a recharge. It has no charge memory ie. you can charge it whenever you like, as often as you like and it will always maintain it’s maximum capacity.

I can only assume you haven’t ridden Di2 Steve. The benefit is frighteningly clear once you ride it. The battery issue, or more correctly non-issue, has already been explained many times in many places. A charge will last for an extremely long time (approx 1600km) and it’s LED will notify you along way before that when you might consider a recharge. It has no charge memory ie. you can charge it whenever you like, as often as you like and it will always maintain it’s maximum capacity.

I can only assume you haven’t ridden Di2 Steve. The benefit is frighteningly clear once you ride it. The battery issue, or more correctly non-issue, has already been explained many times in many places. A charge will last for an extremely long time (approx 1600km) and it’s LED will notify you along way before that when you might consider a recharge. It has no charge memory ie. you can charge it whenever you like, as often as you like and it will always maintain it’s maximum capacity.

My personal dilemma, I am buying a new bike that the end of the year and the choice will be mechanical DA or electronic Ultegra… what to do
I have run DA for a long time and loved it (I am still on 7800) and maybe I will not be able to hold my head as high if I am not on DA (Ultegra pfft, not sure how people can live with themselves) But the prospect of electronic is very tempting, weight is not that much different to the 7800 anyway

I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords…

I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords…

And I don’t care what anyone else thinks, Monoshock forks are just wrong

And I don’t care what anyone else thinks, Monoshock forks are just wrong

I don’t understand the mindset of wanting to have something that needs to be recharged on a bike. It also seems at odds with the engineering of the mechanical mechanisms that make a bike so elegant.

The advent of electronic shifting means that mechanically they should all perform the same in terms of shifting. Unless Shimano does something stupid like program a slight hesitant moment into low end groups to make high end groups appear better. Materials and finish will be the only difference. Without having a chance to ride with either electronic group I would have a stab at saying the DA and Ultegra Di2 would shift every so slightly better than the mech set up. Only thing with mech is it does have the disadvantage of getting dirty cables.
The one thing I don’t like is the way they price these things. A brake lever with two micro switches on it and being charged $1000 for the DA version is taking the piss. and don’t give me ROI and R&D and all that guff. They are selling enough units to make up for the cost of development many times over……………..opps………. sorry, I’m ranting.
I’d buy Ultegra Di2 personally.

I watched the Prius x Parlee video link. Parlee seem to have missed the point that the Prius is a car that was designed (in part) to deal with diminishing resources. Putting power driven derailleurs on a bike has the opposite affect. If it so bloody hard to move your fingers, why don’t you get somebody to peddle the thing for you as well.

I wonder how robust those MTB set ups would be?
After several hours of MTB riding in mud, rain, sand, mud and all the rest, the shifting performance of my mechanical set up deteriorates until such time as they are deep cleaned, then they are good as gold again. I can’t help but think that a Di set up would not take this abuse week in and week out. Perhaps this is why there is yet to be a Shimano MTB Di on the market

So you never know how fast you’re going or ever ride in the dark? :o)
Having ridden in the era of down-tube shifters, single pivot brakes, steel rims etc, Di2 is just another piece of progress.
Do most people NEED it?  Probably not but if you WANT it then buy it.

So you never know how fast you’re going or ever ride in the dark? :o)
Having ridden in the era of down-tube shifters, single pivot brakes, steel rims etc, Di2 is just another piece of progress.
Do most people NEED it?  Probably not but if you WANT it then buy it.

Here’s a good review by a guy who rode Di2 on a cyclocross bike for 6 months  (mud, gravel, snow, grass, etc) and tried to trash it:  
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=70101

“Short version- It works. Recommendation: Sell everything you own to make it happen. (I sold framesets, a Super Record 11sp grouppo, a Chorus 11 mini grouppo, multiple Campagnolo wheels and cassettes to make it happen on 2 bikes for me. That’s saying something for a lifelong Campaphile.)”

Don’t worry about the battery. You charge it once every 3 months. As Robert Merkel said, it’s a price decision. Everyone’s entitled to their preference, but why would you prefer the inferior cable system? The only reason is because you like the “purity” of it and that’s fine but it’s inferior from a performance point of view.

I understand the shifting is similar and I would they both would use the same digital technology, I think the main difference between DA & Ultegra would come down to materials, aesthetics and of course weight.

For those with digital, what happens if the shifting is slightly out? (cable stretch, rear mech out etc.)

With non-digital there’s the element of ‘feel’ and slight nudging into gear when shifting. Also, (I know you shouldn’t do this) but what happens if you have chain cross, manually again there’s that ‘feel’ element in shifting. Just wonderin’ ….

Long term, is Shimano planning to phase out their manual shift lines?

Long term, is Shimano planning to phase out their manual shift lines?

Personal preferences are the key here. It is quite obvious that some people love the concept of electronic shifting and others detest it. 
There’s nothing wrong with innovation/evolution – if you don’t like it just don’t need to use it.
On a side note, has anyone used electronic shifting during cyclocross? I can see a potential benefit there with the lack of external cables and self aligning derailleurs.

More dead batteries that will need to be recycled or that make their way to landfill versus wire cables into landfill every two years may also be something to consider. 

More dead batteries that will need to be recycled or that make their way to landfill versus wire cables into landfill every two years may also be something to consider. 

Really struggle to understand the need for hydraulic brakes on a road bike…

See Wades linkabove  to WW for your answer regarding cyclocross.

I too rode with down-tube shifters and was happy when they moved to the levers. There does seem to be something fundamentally inane about the powering of mechanical components though…maybe I’m getting old.

I do take your point about the other technologies that are used on a bike.

3 months? It’s 1500km or so, which doesn’t get me through one month…

Depends on availability.

As it stands for us, earliest we can get it from Shimano Aus will be Jan! 

Sounds like the primary difference between the two Di2 variants is that DA uses Shimano-developed servo motors, whereas Ultegra uses cheaper pre-existing motors from another manufacturer. The off-the-peg motors are heavier and bulkier, hence the less stylish implementation.

Sounds like the primary difference between the two Di2 variants is that DA uses Shimano-developed servo motors, whereas Ultegra uses cheaper pre-existing motors from another manufacturer. The off-the-peg motors are heavier and bulkier, hence the less stylish implementation.

Sounds like the primary difference between the two Di2 variants is that DA uses Shimano-developed servo motors, whereas Ultegra uses cheaper pre-existing motors from another manufacturer. The off-the-peg motors are heavier and bulkier, hence the less stylish implementation.

I will be buying in Europe while on holidays and stock is supposed to be good from November… still, a definite consideration I would almost bet there will be a lot of bikes sold without supply…

I will be buying in Europe while on holidays and stock is supposed to be good from November… still, a definite consideration I would almost bet there will be a lot of bikes sold without supply…

There are some in the peloton that ride like robots waiting for instruction.

Don’t expect the purist vs tech advancement arguments to stop any time soon – I know a bunch of people (a slowly dying breed) for whom an automatically shifting car is sacrilegious!

Don’t expect the purist vs tech advancement arguments to stop any time soon – I know a bunch of people (a slowly dying breed) for whom an automatically shifting car is sacrilegious!

Agree. Using batteries far less sustainable from an earth-friendly perspective. Toxic chemicals leaching into landfill just so some tech-obsesssed MAMILs (and pros) get their gear-changing rocks off. 20th century thinking Shimano (not 21st). This is definitely how to over-engineer a solution to a problem that didn’t really exist.

Im 90+kgs and dropping down some of the bigger local climbs, my brakes are fading badly near the bottom.

I just meant cables getting gunked up and losing their glide in the housing and losing their initial crisp shifting. On a well maintained bike it’s a non issue.

I’m still waiting for the Iphone 7. I reckon that’ll be the one to get. Still holding onto me compact Nokia 7950 with texting function

I’m a purist when it comes to TV. I insist all my TVs have only manual channel dials. I refuse to use a remote control to change the channel because I hate changing the remote batteries every couple of years :D

Well I had Di2 and went back to the D/A mech group. It just wasn’t for me. Yes it does some things great but its not perfect by any means. It probably is the future of shifting. Shimano has plenty of room for improvement/upgrades.

Pro’s – Front shift mech is awesome(the jewel in the Di2 crown), Easy to tune once set up. Great lever shape, appears very durable.

Cons – Shifting not tactile(sometimes you dont know if you’ve shifted or not), miss shifts when on rough roads, multiple rear shifting slower, heavier, unsightly battery and cables, bulky looking derailleurs (ultegra even worse). Expensive.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 
 

unless you ride round on a penny farthing you can’t claim purist status 

Good luck with that…

Well every three months is far too often for me to justify. The cost is not the issue.

And tell me how its inferior from a peformance point of view? Changing gear is functional – my gear shifting works…every time hence there is little or no room for improvement.

Oh and if you need to change the battery every three months that to me is actually inferior performance.

Ok so no i havent ridden Di2. If you have then please explain this part to me ‘The benefit is frighteningly clear once you ride it’

What are the frighteningly clear benefits?

Re; Battery use – not something i want to worry about whether you chanrge every week, month or year. Again my cables do just fine and have done for 23 years.

“charge” the battery every three months, not “change” 

“charge” the battery every three months, not “change” 

• Most every rider already carries batteries on their bike at all times. We’re only talking about increasing your totally battery capacity by a fraction. If this system also reduces use of consumables (cables, mechanical gearing in current shifters etc) it might even be an environmental net gain.

• If you want a simpler bike, then ditching brifters will cut your moving parts down considerably.• The first time you figure out your mate’s using his Garmin gear results, that now show exactly what gear he was in and when, to eke out that extra speed to beat you home you’ll be straight down to the shop• Once this percolates down to commuter bikes it will get a lot of people back in the saddle. Imagine if you could dial in a cadence for your child/parent whoever is coming to grips with the idiosyncrasies of derailleurs and the shifters automatically made the necessary adjustments? I think in time this will be huge for the “lower” recreational market, huge for the “upper” pro riders while the rest of us will squabble in the middle just as we do over every other component.

• Most every rider already carries batteries on their bike at all times. We’re only talking about increasing your totally battery capacity by a fraction. If this system also reduces use of consumables (cables, mechanical gearing in current shifters etc) it might even be an environmental net gain.

• If you want a simpler bike, then ditching brifters will cut your moving parts down considerably.• The first time you figure out your mate’s using his Garmin gear results, that now show exactly what gear he was in and when, to eke out that extra speed to beat you home you’ll be straight down to the shop• Once this percolates down to commuter bikes it will get a lot of people back in the saddle. Imagine if you could dial in a cadence for your child/parent whoever is coming to grips with the idiosyncrasies of derailleurs and the shifters automatically made the necessary adjustments? I think in time this will be huge for the “lower” recreational market, huge for the “upper” pro riders while the rest of us will squabble in the middle just as we do over every other component.

• Most every rider already carries batteries on their bike at all times. We’re only talking about increasing your totally battery capacity by a fraction. If this system also reduces use of consumables (cables, mechanical gearing in current shifters etc) it might even be an environmental net gain.

• If you want a simpler bike, then ditching brifters will cut your moving parts down considerably.• The first time you figure out your mate’s using his Garmin gear results, that now show exactly what gear he was in and when, to eke out that extra speed to beat you home you’ll be straight down to the shop• Once this percolates down to commuter bikes it will get a lot of people back in the saddle. Imagine if you could dial in a cadence for your child/parent whoever is coming to grips with the idiosyncrasies of derailleurs and the shifters automatically made the necessary adjustments? I think in time this will be huge for the “lower” recreational market, huge for the “upper” pro riders while the rest of us will squabble in the middle just as we do over every other component.

I believe I mentioned “Fully automatic gear shifting” a la The Toyota Prius X Parlee Concept Bike  video. If I could afford a Di2 set up I would certainly have one, or two, one for each bike.

Electronic shifting, fine, hopefully I’ll have one, in the future. Auto shifting? Different story.

I believe I mentioned “Fully automatic gear shifting” a la The Toyota Prius X Parlee Concept Bike  video. If I could afford a Di2 set up I would certainly have one, or two, one for each bike.

Electronic shifting, fine, hopefully I’ll have one, in the future. Auto shifting? Different story.

I believe I mentioned “Fully automatic gear shifting” a la The Toyota Prius X Parlee Concept Bike  video. If I could afford a Di2 set up I would certainly have one, or two, one for each bike.

Electronic shifting, fine, hopefully I’ll have one, in the future. Auto shifting? Different story.

1600km? I’d be charging every 2 weeks!

1600km? I’d be charging every 2 weeks!

I don’t understand why someone hasn’t yet integrated in ports for powering a front and rear light (which nearly all of us need)… maybe Ayup / Icarus could step up to the plate with an even bigger battery capacity for the seatpost which can last for lets say 12 or 24 hours or more on full beam for the lights, plus run the dérailleurs… an LED with indication for charge level would be needed too. Why? because lets face it most road bikes look like arse when they have additional lights, pumps, saddle bags etc strapped on.

I realise that you don’t change batteries every 3 months my point was that if you change batteries/cables every couple of years, old cables is much more environmentally friendly than old batteries.

I realise that you don’t change batteries every 3 months my point was that if you change batteries/cables every couple of years, old cables is much more environmentally friendly than old batteries.

My LBS has a Giant TCR Advanced with Ultegra Di2 on it sitting on display right now.  4 grand on the sticker.

My LBS has a Giant TCR Advanced with Ultegra Di2 on it sitting on display right now.  4 grand on the sticker.

My LBS has a Giant TCR Advanced with Ultegra Di2 on it sitting on display right now.  4 grand on the sticker.

Steve, I’m happy to relate my experiences and what I’ve come to know about it, but from your posts, but you seem to have a fair bit of angst towards Di2 for some reason. Mate, nobody is forcing you to buy it or use it, comment on it or even like it so I don’t know why you feel so compelled to try to put it down. In any case, I have no interest in some sort of online argument about it, Di2 speaks for itself well enough if you care to ride it. I’ve ridden it a number of times but can’t afford it, so in my case, it’s the money.
My experiences:
The frighteningly clear benefits, like many things that are written about high-end gear are best experienced rather than explained. If you can bring yourself to try it, you’ll understand why people who have it will never go back. When I first tried it, I was amazed at how precise it felt. I found it very hard to imagine how Di2 could be any better than my fine-tuned mechanical group but after a few shifts, it was “frighteningly clear” to me. OK, maybe frightening isn’t the best word but you know what I mean. Throw in the auto-trimming of the front derailleur and the incredible shifts from small to big ring and I was sold. I tried to make the front derailleur choke but it didn’t matter what I did (hope my friend isn’t reading this….), it was perfect.I agree, batteries are a bummer and I prefer the idea of not relying on an electrical system too but it is that good, in every respect, I’d gladly shell out the dough and replace my mechanical group if I could.

Steve, I’m happy to relate my experiences and what I’ve come to know about it, but from your posts, but you seem to have a fair bit of angst towards Di2 for some reason. Mate, nobody is forcing you to buy it or use it, comment on it or even like it so I don’t know why you feel so compelled to try to put it down. In any case, I have no interest in some sort of online argument about it, Di2 speaks for itself well enough if you care to ride it. I’ve ridden it a number of times but can’t afford it, so in my case, it’s the money.
My experiences:
The frighteningly clear benefits, like many things that are written about high-end gear are best experienced rather than explained. If you can bring yourself to try it, you’ll understand why people who have it will never go back. When I first tried it, I was amazed at how precise it felt. I found it very hard to imagine how Di2 could be any better than my fine-tuned mechanical group but after a few shifts, it was “frighteningly clear” to me. OK, maybe frightening isn’t the best word but you know what I mean. Throw in the auto-trimming of the front derailleur and the incredible shifts from small to big ring and I was sold. I tried to make the front derailleur choke but it didn’t matter what I did (hope my friend isn’t reading this….), it was perfect.I agree, batteries are a bummer and I prefer the idea of not relying on an electrical system too but it is that good, in every respect, I’d gladly shell out the dough and replace my mechanical group if I could.

Please, its all just abit wanky isn’t it? Shimano are just taking advantage of our insatiable need to upgrade. I have a Di2 compliant bike but i doubt i would waste my coin on it. When I become incapable of shifting gears with my hands then maybe.

Please, its all just abit wanky isn’t it? Shimano are just taking advantage of our insatiable need to upgrade. I have a Di2 compliant bike but i doubt i would waste my coin on it. When I become incapable of shifting gears with my hands then maybe.

Please, its all just abit wanky isn’t it? Shimano are just taking advantage of our insatiable need to upgrade. I have a Di2 compliant bike but i doubt i would waste my coin on it. When I become incapable of shifting gears with my hands then maybe.

The battery will out live most bikes!

The battery will out live most bikes!

Rubbish

Rubbish

When Shimano released index gears in the early 80′s people asked similar questions like yours.

When Shimano released index gears in the early 80′s people asked similar questions like yours.

When Shimano released index gears in the early 80′s people asked similar questions like yours.

what’s that?

egg. 

all over your face.

what’s that?

egg. 

all over your face.

what’s that?

egg. 

all over your face.

Shimano Aus has already started shipping Ultegra Di2 out to dealers so not sure where you are getting your info from Nick?

Shimano Aus has already started shipping Ultegra Di2 out to dealers so not sure where you are getting your info from Nick?

Still using down tube shifters are we Steve? (non index of course) 

Very nice write-up and some very cool examples!

Very nice write-up and some very cool examples!

Have you ever tried descending in the wet?….. on carbon rims?  I imagine hydro disc brakes on road bikes could cause some horrible crashes in the peleton while riders get used to the brakes though.

Have you ever tried descending in the wet?….. on carbon rims?  I imagine hydro disc brakes on road bikes could cause some horrible crashes in the peleton while riders get used to the brakes though.

January arrival….And people wonder why consumers buy of the internet

SON dynamo front hubs. Piss the batteries off forever.

I think Mavic’s system was the first iteration and Di2 is a big step up from that

Like I said guys it’s already available in Australia in group set form and/or on bikes. Giant has already supplied some stores with Ultegra Di2 equipped bikes.   

I just had a look at how many kms I have done on my Di2 equipped bike that I have had since late July 2010. I’ve done 6895kms with plenty of climbing and I have charged it twice over that time! 

I also have a bike with SR11 on it which I have put another 4+ thousand kms on. I love it.

It’s been done to death the whole Mech vs Elec. debate. I personally love them both for different reasons but there has never been a day on the Di2 bike when it has been anything other than satisfyingly perfect in its execution but there have been some days when the SR11 has been out of whack and therefore less than perfect.

There will always be early adopters and late adopters and there will always be technophiles and technophobes and also those that value style over function. Thats why there is so much debate, this debate is not about absolutes, it’s kind of fun to read

typo…

typo…

only on my old pink Argos steel bike from the 1980′s !

No angst – just feel its over engineering for what is a very simple function of a bike.  I dont see how cleaner shifting is an amazing benefit when my shifting works just fine and very well with cables. But thanks for outlining your experiences. You never know I might upgrade in 15 years.

What about the energy input in terms of manufacturing and creation of carbon, steel, alu (horribly bad for the environment) not to mention transport.

It’s a question of where you draw the line. If you look at total cost of ownership in terms of environment footprint compared to a car….the battery is such  a trivial impost.

What is very interesting about this is the innovation it enables in third parties. It’s great to see Shimano supporting third party development on their platform to the extent that in some cases it’s barely recognisable as the original product.  This will I think help Shim further hone their engineering efforts which feeds into their Build-Measure-Learn cycle.

Very clever to cement their advantage of Campag AND awesome in helping drive this whole new market.

I think it’s amazing to watch and see what these little after market operators can make.

More points of failure?

The beauty of the bicycle is its inherent simplicity and self serviceability and huge reliability. 

That’s not to detract from this post, nor Di2 because it’s a great evolution, I’m just saying.

There are already plenty of points of potential failure. Fortunately there has been enough time to tweak the design so that failure is minimised if not removed from the modern bike. Not including bikes that really push the material envelope and fail due to bad design. The reality is that most of us here in Australia, that spend time racing and training, will have have lights on our bikes for at least 6 months of the year.  Those that are fortunate to do all their training in reasonable daylight I am very jealous of. Carrying a battery is almost de rigueur these days so why not combine it all into a single power source. With the amount of energy that is actually req’d to power the Di2, you could easily design a small energy scavenger ie. dynamo to power an even smaller battery or controlled discharge capacitor and you’d never need to charge a battery other than JRA.

What I think everybody needs to do is look at why they ride a bike and what reference they need to make to set their equipment up. Di2 is aimed at those whose race and race at a high level. They are the ones who put their bikes performance to the limit whether it be the shifting or the handling they are the ones who are going to benefit from super fast accurate shifting. I can hear all the guys saying ‘but my mech DA shifts bloody well thank you!’ Put your self in the position of a professional level sprinter, he’s coming out of the last corner and he needs to know and have full confidence he can get every shift he needs at exactly the time he needs it. That’s where Di2 will deliver, I willing to bet 100%, of the time. It’s not going to make your cappuccino any frothier or taste better. You are not actually cool because you have Di2 and your not really that cool if you shun it either. You just can’t buy, or not buy, coolness. You either have it or your just pack fodder.

Do I need Di2? Probably not. I haven’t needed it up to this point and World Championships have been won before it came along. Will I buy it soon? Possibly. I may be getting a new bike in the next few weeks. I haven’t decided to get cookie cutter carbon with Di2 or go custom built steel from with a mechanical group. At the end of the day it doesn’t make a shit of difference to my riding experience if the bike fits well (most important), rides well (important as well) and shifts well (I like my stuff to work almost perfectly) then you won’t even notice what you are actually riding as you’ll be watching the scenery go by not spending the whole ride trying to get on with the bike.

I have had Di2 on my roadie for 15 months and have my new TT with Di2 on the way.  It is simply the best.  As for charging, I charged my battery today and that is the first time since before going to the TDF.  Not an issue.  If you can afford it do it/